Why are people so defensive towards alleged rapists?

[PinkyofPie]

If you're charged with a crime that goes to court, unless there's a reason to retain anonymity (such as it involves your child therefore naming you effectively names them) the press can name you if they wish to do so. Be it burglary, assault, theft or rape.

So why, every time a rapist is on trial, do people hop about saying "innocent until proven guilty" "they shouldn't be named they're tarred for life now" etc. But literally NO other crime.

A few days ago my local paper posted a picture on their FB newsfeed of 2 men on trial accused of raping a 18yo in the park. The above comments were there and even calls to "name and shame" the victim and also "will she get sentenced if they're found not guilty". Perhaps because "not guilty" does not mean innocent and if the law worked that way even fewer women would report rape than there is now

One of the men accused also posted mocking both the trial and people who actually had sensible comments. I looked at his profile, which is public, and there's lots of people saying "good luck mate" for today (verdict) and memes about liars getting their comeuppance.

Today both men were unanimously found guilty by the jury in just 7 hours.

No comments so far on the post about their guilt.

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why people take this attitude with rape, and only rape? The poor survivor has had to read all that sympathy for them

OP, your last post is a case study in bigotry. Men who have not committed rape are entitled to justice and freedom from negative consequences as much as any woman.

When did I say they shouldn't? Please stop putting words in my mouth

But it seems that nowhere are gender lines so entrenched as in feminism.
Your life has been ruined by something you didn't do. Are you female? If so, that's awful. Are you male? If so, get to the back of the queue and how dare you suggest you are a victim too.

I'm not sure what kind of feminism you're familiar with probably ones MRAs make up in their heads but feminist cause does not look to disadvantage men in any way

Both rape and the accusation of an innocent person having raped are an invasion of privacy in a manner that is unlike any other crime except possibly child abuse. There's no question about that. The courts do recognise it because they grant anonymity to the victim. Until the guilty verdict is passed, the accused is also potentially a victim.

Comparing being accused of rape to child abuse? And saying accused rapists are potential victims? Fuck me this thread is drowned in irony. And you really wonder why we want to keep having these conversations. It really is the championship title in "what about the menz".

Do you also think people accused of child abuse and burglary are potential victims??

To prevent potentially innocent people getting caught up in the crossfire, I believe there are grounds to refrain from publicly labelling a face and a name.

I've asked this countless times - just for rape or for all crimes?

You don't have to stop feeling concern for women - just extend your concern

No. You can't force people to feel concern for things they don't feel concerned about. I don't have to care about everything

Otherwise, how can you, in all seriousness, expect the man on the street to give a flying fuck about you?

Why do you believe concern for women has to be earned rather than automatically given? It's not a reward for hard work you know

Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Right.

However you can't just pick and choose who is deserving enough to be allowed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Last time I checked falsely accusing someone of a crime is a crime in itself therefore innocent until proven guilty applies equally to someone you suspect is making a false accusation.

Why does it seem that people who cry "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!" the loudest cherry pick who and what crime that gets applied to?

So someone is being accused of rape?

ZOMG, EVERYONE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!!!!!

On the other hand someone else is being accused of making a false accusation of rape.

ZOMG, THAT'S DISGUSTING! I HOPE THEY THROW THE BOOK AT HER, EVIL LYING BITCH!

Ah, CPS guidance suggests that a charge for perverting the course of justice rather than wasting police time would be more apt for a case that had got to the court stage.

Also, Hannah, why do you say "these liars give genuine rape sufferers a bad name"? Does Chris Huhne give middle aged white men a bad name because of his perjury, would you say?

It kind of helps me Felas because it's the shit that's been in my life or head for years. But at least here I see the answers and challenges from posters. And it's reassuring. I'm not suggesting you should stay on the thread, everyone has their point where they need to step back. But no one's energy has been wasted although I understand the frustration I am grateful for MNers who post with clarity and conviction - and compassion. So thank you.

Toads you should not feel guilty at all. If any other women were raped that's on him, not you. I very much doubt you'd hold me responsible for not reporting. Nor I you.

Trying

She admitted it wasn't true.

How do you know she admitted it wasn't true?

Did she tell you herself that it wasn't true? Did she tell the police that it wasn't true or did she admit it in court?

If it wasn't any of those then how can you be sure she admitted to making it up? Who did she supposedly make this confession to and was the confession recorded?

Because if you weren't there when this alleged confession happened and it wasn't recorded so you didn't hear it yourself then how can you possibly know for sure that she admitted to making it up?

Actually I've decided I'm will no longer engage with gone

My OP was asking why people are quick to jump to the defence of potential rapists when they don't do the same for the accused any other crime. Gone has come on to strongly defend men accused of rape, nit-pick and points in posts, perpetuate rape myths, refuses to answer simple questions (yet expected everyone to answer his), has expected everyone to do his research for him, has not acknowledged the suffering of rape victims whatsoever, made things up, said we've said things we haven't, made statistics up, tries to say feminists should believe in X Y or Z and generally been a massive goady fucker.

I strongly suspect gone is a woman hating MRA who has a chip on his shoulder through some personal experience and thinks he's some sort of SJW on behalf of the poor menz.

Why else would you come on a feminist board to stir it?

I won't engage any more because gone has a huge misunderstanding of not only my point, the WBY campaign and feminism in general, and refuses to take in anyone's point.

I have been trying to catch up. Toad I am very sorry for what happened to you That man must be pure malevolence personified, and imagine him being so sure of himself, liked and charming. He is probably actually a psychopath. It must have been very difficult your mother was in denial at first, how difficult that must have been. Something for anyone reading here to learn from - if they were not aware of it before - that a person, who is told by someone that they have been raped must always, always watch out for that reaction. It was brave of you to write about this experience.

Telling I am very sorry for what happened to you too and that your mother and your husband behaved that way. It makes no difference that you were drunk - that was all the more reason for him to leave you alone in fact. How drunk was he anyway if he raped you all night? And even if he was, that is no excuse - he should not be getting drunk if he might rape someone/act violent (I am sure he must have been drunk before and knew what he could be like). Unfortunately, I am not surprised his henchmen are still friends. EIther people just deny to themselves their friend is capable of doing anything wrong; or, sometimes, there seem to be some popular rapist/womanising types who are shored up by the vicarious satisfaction of more passive men. Also, men have a pack mentality where they will do anything rather than separate from their group or gang and have a code of loyalty to anyone in it no matter what.

accused of rape?

ZOMG, EVERYONE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!!!!!

On the other hand someone else is being accused of making a false accusation of rape.

ZOMG, THAT'S DISGUSTING! I HOPE THEY THROW THE BOOK AT HER, EVIL LYING BITCH!

V good point

Hannah did she admit this in court? If it got as far as court id be very surprised if she didn't get prosecuted for oerverting the course of justice?

Your story is a bit confusing btw Hannah.

First you say

There was no evidence and it got thrown out if court but the damage was done.

Then you say

She admitted it wasn't true.

You're adding new spins on to the story here Hannah.

PS welcome new members

These girls should be prosecuted for false allegations!

And they are. The police do not like people who waste their time; the CPS and its Scottish equivalent don't like people who waste their time.

They don't like it because on a purely practical level it is a waste of time and resources , and as I said before, but I'm going to repeat it, perverting the course of justice, perjury and contempt of court are extremely serious offences. They support the foundations of why the criminal judicial system works.

pinky

I think gone is a woman...i gave up a while ago really long posts, loves the sound of their own retoric and wont answer a simple question

So the thread has been linked...that would be the bat signal then

What sort of fuckwit does that?

What sort of fuckwit does that?

A twat.

A fucktwat

Well women can be women hating MRA's too. I have come across a few in my time which I can never quite wrap my head around.

I think gone is a woman though.

pinky

Thanks trying. I feel like I'm in a kind of rape thread groundhog day.
I was sexually assaulted myself (not raped thank god) by a prolific child abuser who would still be out there if victim anonymity was in place so I have strong feelings about it.
I also heard all kinds of tripe such as "he's such a nice guy and I would know if he'd done that" and "everyone knows teenage girls lie" directtly from people who had no idea I was a victim so I get pretty angry about it and also emotionally affected by people claiming it's so much worse for mythical unicorn lives-ruined-by-false-allegation men.

A fucktwat

Or a misogynist rape activate - aka an MRA

It's interesting that 2 posters have now spoken about their innocent brothers. Because we all know no ones brother could ever be guilty.

Look at Faye Johnson. She's got a Facebook group and everything for her poor brother

"You are trying to encourage, force and persuade men to care deeply about a group in society to which they don't belong."

Well fuck me. If we only care about people in our own group then we're pretty much shafted as a society aren't we?

Maybe we should start a new hash tag #onlypeoplewhoareexactlylikemeslivesmatter

Do you know what would be amazing?

Actually managing to have a discussion about rape either on here, elsewhere online or in real life without false accusations being brought up.

It would seriously be amazing.

That sounds awful Felas, sorry. You have a lot of strength to post despite difficult personal emotions.
I understand feeling angry. I have felt quite detached but I'm starting to feel angry too with those posts.
Time to unwind before sleep.

Hannah4banana Sun 31-Jul-16 22:19:26
She admitted it wasn't true. Total waste of time for everyone
I wonder if it was her boyfriend who suggested she report it? Thank God she did not carry on with her allegation. I once read that, in the very few cases of false allegations there are, one of the reasons can be a boyfriend or husband, or sometimes another family member, urging the report and everything escalates from there. I can see your brother would be a shell, but it sounds as though, as she said it wasn't true, he should exonerate himself.

I would be interested in some discussion of why a false accusation happens in the extremely rare cases where it does.

Why do people always trot out "false accusers are never punished" or "people who make false accusations should be punished" (obviously implying they don't)?

Do they honestly genuinely believe that a woman who has been proven to have made a malicious false accusation of rape will get away with it scot free?

Surely a quick Google will show that false accusers are punished? Are perhaps they don't know how to use Google?

Because if they don't, let me help them out a bit and Hannah I am doing this for you as you don't seem to be able to use Google yourself

www.google.co.uk/#q=woman+jailed+for+false+allegations

www.google.co.uk/#q=woman+jailed+for+false+rape+claim&start=20

Just a couple of links to get you and everyone else started Hannah.

You're welcome