feminist views of TTC?

[RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers]

Do you think there's a feminist issue around the way we talk about it? I was thinking about all the language (baby dust, babydancing and so on).

I'm noticing it because at the moment DP and I are TTC with donor sperm, and we go to a clinic where, obviously, a lot of the couples are straight couples who're having difficulties. The nurses refer to us (and presumably all the women) as 'girls', and although I would imagine they see a fair number of lesbian couples (and single women), all their paperwork is presuming you're a male/female couple, so it got me thinking about how men are expected to feel/think. It does feel as if there's an odd mixture of euphemisms that talk down to women.

I'm not criticising the clinic staff at all - just commenting.

And I agree medical/scientific terminology can be upsetting, but it can also be reassuring. And I think there are multiple ways of being informal, not all of which would have to reinforce gendered ideas about women wanting to be described as if they were younger than they are, which is what 'girls' ultimately is.

Interesting what you say about women being more used to invasive procedures. I can believe that's a big part of it. And also I guess women go into TTC expecting at least some bodily intervention.

Cross post.

choc - that's really interesting. Yes, I think I agree. And you would never (I think) say 'sirs' to a room full of men. You use it in the singular. Yet the me are all addressed with 'excuse me, Sir' or 'Is it David' or whatever.

What you say about erasing individuality slightly reminds me of the way some couples say 'we're pregnant', too.

I read an article a while ago - can't remember where - which said that male infertility is often the last thing to be tested for when a couple is under-investigation. The article posed that this was anti-man, focusing on the woman, but I felt it more anti-woman, assuming that women cause the problem, and putting them through lots of invasive tests before asking for a sperm sample.

Sperm test was the first thing all doctors looked at with us- it's pretty obvious. And as I said before nobody at our fertility clinic ever called me a "girl"- I was simply addressed by my name, as was my husband (nobody called him Sir either). Those we dealt with did not try to infantilise medical terminology either, but we're still able to explain in layman's terms. Going by this thread I feel we were in a parallel universe fertility-wise.

Were not we're.

I was never addressed as a girl either when we went though IVF. Always Ms Banana or "Stealth". And actually I think the process is very woman centric - I noticed the paperwork actually only cares about what responsibility the owner of the sperm has towards the mother - thus every form distinguishes between a husband, a de facto male partner and a sperm donor situation. It's only interested in the woman whose womb is the subject of treatment. I think that's quite narrow but I understand why. And there's no distinction between using a sperm donor as a single woman or as half of a same sex couple. It makes sense as to why.

Pregnancy, on the other hand, is a shitball of twee stereotypes about women, I think premised on the idea that pregnancy & motherhood are the pinnacle of female achievement so all is sunshine & unicorns regardless of the multiple indignities of pregnancy. Spare me!

YY, I thought it was standard to test sperm first, too - it is so simple, after all, and painless, so why not?

stealth - that paperwork sounds better than what we had. In fact the clinic insisted on asking me about heritable diseases and things like that. Which made us laugh because they were so obviously not relevant! And they are nice people and found it funny too - this absolutely isn't me having a pop at the clinic, because we chose the place that got the best results and that is what is important. It's just me noticing little things about language and attitudes along the way.

The whole process obviously is woman-centric, and I guess what I'm wondering is whether the terminology is a clumsy, ad hoc way of attempting to make up a little for that? A sort of 'yes, men, you are very important despite standing around looking a bit lost with not much to do'?

It might just be anecdata, but then (as I said), it is replicated in the way the language used in your average TTC situation paints the man as a bit of a lad getting loads of sex, while the woman is supposed to turn into some kind of cooing, twee little flower.

(Should add: the info about heritable diseases, though funny, isn't quite as bonkers as it might be, because unlike yours, stealth, ours did distinguish between single women and women with partners, and did make you sign as the partner, so you have the same bits of the form as a male partner there, and he could be passing things on genetically. I'm feeling I have to say this as I'm now feeling oddly guilty about how I may have sounded about my clinic!)