Upset by Mumsnet - please cheer me up!

[MargaretCavendish]

So, I started having a look at Mumsnet a month or so ago. My husband and I are thinking of trying for our first child in the next few months, and I was Googling some conception advice (alright, alright, I was actually trying to find out whether I really needed to give up drinking while we tried) and Mumsnet came up. I have become a bit addicted, particularly to AIBU. I know, I know.

Anyway, while I have been enjoying reading it (I've always loved problem pages, etc.) it's also been making me feel really depressed and even panicky about post-baby life. So many partners who see everything to do with babies as not their job, so many women giving up work so that they can dust four fucking times a day, so many women whose lives and worlds seem to have got so, so small. I tell myself it won't be like that for me, that my husband (who is far from perfect, but who is a proud feminist who has never seen us as anything but equals) isn't like that. We're planning to do shared parental leave, so I'd only be at home for five-ish months, and then we're hoping he could drop down to part-time longer term. I earn quite a bit more so it makes financial sense for us; I guess there's also some ideology there too for me. BUT I'm still scared that having a baby might turn me into 'wifey', I guess. So, please tell me that I'm being silly, that you can be a feminist mum (and a feminist dad) and that equal parenting isn't just a pipe dream!

You could bookmark her blog or click to watch it and get sent email notifications when she posts on it.

And yes, she does say she was radicalised by MN.

This is a real interesting thread - thank you for starting it op I've enjoyed reading through everyone's different responses.

For me dh was crap when our first baby came along: he just hadn't anticipated how much it would change his life. It took me going away for a long weekend for him to realise what 'pulling his weight' meant. He's fantastic now and I'd say we definitely have a 50/50 split in terms of housework etc. In that sense mumsnet does offer a skewed view because I wouldn't really start a thread about how equal things are now whereas I may have in those early days when I felt like I needed advice.

Prior to having dc, there was no way I was sacrificing my hard earned career to sit around and do housework. Dh and I earn more or less the same so there wasn't a particularly obvious choice over who would be the main caregiver. Once ds was born though, I felt really strongly that I wanted to be at home with him as much as possible. Becoming a SAHM wasn't financially an option but it was me not dh who went part time.

The biggest issue I've had which you bring up in your post is that feeling of lost of identity which is something that hasn't affected dh. I used to be a keen runner but I'm always to knackered now. Most mornings I throw on whatever is clean and comfy so I don't have the same style that I used to. And I used to consider myself a total rock chick but I can't remember the last time I went to a gig. If I had a spare £40 now I'd spend it on a day out with the kids not something for me. This is definitely a problem within myself though. I can't blame society or dh iyswim but it us something I need to rectify as I do feel like I've lost myself a bit.

OP I never wanted to get married and have kids but I can say I know parents of both sexes who have either lost their personalities or not! So you don't have to be one of the former.

I am honestly mystified by working mother guilt but if it helps, my mother wishes she had worked and frankly so do we (myself and my sis). She was clearly miserable being a SAHM and we were very independent from a young age. I wouldn't have noticed who picked me up from school and made my snack I'm afraid. When I was 6 or 7 I began to wonder why mum didn't work! It would be different if she enjoyed SAHM, I guess, but she hated it and by the time she realised what a mistake she'd made, she had health problems and a big gap in her CV, so let's just say it didn't end well.

Since her children entered the working world she feels like she can't relate or help with anything that my dad can help with. Life is long. Your relationship with your adult children is important and I think being happy in your choice is vital.

In terms of MN, I am horrified by what I see on here. It certainly isn't a reflection of what I see in real life - I know stay at home dads, I know couples who both work and the father still takes on the bulk of the childcare, I know many couples where the woman earns more and tbh I also know couples where it's the woman coming home roaring drunk and having to be hidden from the kids. It is like the 1950s on here many days, but especially the last couple of weeks!

OP I was concerned like you. I saw a lot of my friends choose to be utterly submerged in their family after having children and give up all their previous interests and pastimes.
Having children is time consuming, and fair play to those who don't want to add any additional commitments to hobbies or friends, for their own sanity, but for me I have found it perfectly possible to get back to the work I love (4 days a week, by my choice) and my sporting interests. My Dh does at least his fair share of parenting and household running and we have chosen to just have one child.
I loved the baby cafe days with antenatal group friends but my ds also adores nursery and we have a balance that works for us.

This thread really was a fascinating read - Especially as I'm currently wondering whether I want to try again for children or not. Part of my reluctance is due to being utterly, utterly petrified that I won't be 'me', that I'll be completely consumed in being 'Mum / Mummy' and the career I've worked so hard for will be lost and my (currently amazing) relationship with my partner will crumble.

I don't think it helps that there are women I'm very close to who seem to have done that - I remember asking one if she'd watched a particular TV show and her reply was 'I don't have time for TV any more, I'm a mother' . Combine that with the fact she seems to have completely forsaken her friends - only spends time with her child and the relationship with her Husband has mostly broken down. When asking if she'd have done anything different in Hindsight, she said 'Well, I wouldn't have had children with such a selfish c**t, that's for sure' - She's still with him now.

I'm such a planner and if there isn't control in my life, I find it incredibly hard - Since getting pregnant, my mood got so low and I became suicidal due to antenatal depression. Whilst terminating was the right thing at the time, my heart is desperate to have a child, whilst my head is saying 'No, no, no.... Your relationship / career / life will be fucked'.

My partner does 50% of the housework, cooks, does food shopping, his own washing... he would call himself a feminist. Yet despite him demonstrating nothing but respect for me, I still worry that if I were to have a child, the majority of the childcare would fall to me, my social life would decrease far more than his and I'd be expected to do all the household chores. After reading 'Wifework', I told him I didn't know if I could marry him as the idea of becoming like that was terrifying!

I think a lot of this thread has really hit a chord with me and I find it really positive that so many women have demonstrated that you don't have to lose yourself, that you may be different, but you'll still be you - especially that a 'Mother' is a type of relationship, it's not just who you are.

Fluffy "I'm such a planner and if there isn't control in my life, I find it incredibly hard"

please don't be cross with what I'm about to say, it's been such an issue I almost can't not say it. I have to have control in my life too so I am sympathetic. One friend who was the same had a baby and she was so miserable at the "bomb going off" aspect of it, she moved out after 6 months because she had a breakdown. It's only really been "resolved" in that her husband is the SAHD - she went back early in her mat leave.

he sets it up so it's as easy as it can be, she's like the 1950s working man, only has to read DC something before bed and then cope with weekends but she dreads weekends. She's coping now, but only just. She really misses her old life, if she could undo this, she would.

Sorry, but I would be remiss if I didn't point it out. It's been really sad watching her go from a happy bunny to a parent who is barely keeping it together. I also feel you have to be genuinely interested in watching a small child grow; luckily I always thought that would be dull as tombs so it was never on the table for me, but I think she is a bit shell shocked that there is no miraculous love to get her through the loss of control, loss of old life etc.

Thanks writer . I'm not cross at all - That's why I'm currently really thinking about whether it's for me or not. It seems some people 'Just do it'... yet when I was going for my first scan... all these excited women with their bounty packs were in the hospital and I was there, trying not to cry... with my leather bound file and Excel printed 'pregnancy project plan' as I was so petrified of losing control.

I've long suspected I've got quite strong autistic traits but that's the thing - I love the idea of nuturing a child, of playing with them, loving them.... but the negatives scare me a lot - So much in fact.

I have so much respect for anyone who can cope with pregnancy let alone parenthood.

Fwiw fluffy I have a friend who was adamant for a long time she didn't want children but her DH did, now she has 2 andis a very happy mum and still has an impressive career. (Still not keen on children in general - just her own)
I think the nurturing/loving thing can get you through a lot of the down sides, most people love their children to distraction even if they weren't sure at the start. If your partner also wants children, maybe you can work it out.

OP I get your fears I really do but I also think this is a very complex issue

Here's my situation...I was a senior manager not only in rank but in an industry that capitalised on the tough talking no nonsense kind of image. I was and am as tough as they come and prided myself on it....I explain this so you can see the mental image I had of myself and that others had. I regularly dealt with dangerous and risky situations.
I was also massively motivated by the social conscience side of my work....making my little corner of the world a better place it was part of my identity (still is)
My dh is massively supportive and we are very much a partnership of equals. I'm very lucky
But when I became a mum the first time there were some serious shocks
(Before I get flamed dh adores his children more than anything) I realised there was a difference between mum and dad ....when ds1 cried it physically hurt at first ...instinctively I jumped to him (still do most of the time)....the thought of him not being OK made me internally shake. It was partly hormonal led and partly reality.. dh didn't mean to but occasionally slept through him waking which was and is beyond impossible for me.....something almost primal kicked in (probably should have guessed that when I unintentionally growled at the paediatrician when he tried to take him to be checked lol) so it did mean that I did more of the child care

I did lose myself very briefly after ds1 but I realised it quickly.... and the key is here that I didn't find the old me....I found a completely new one and one I love

I now have another ds2 and again things were initially very based around me and yes the identity expanded to include being mum as well as an ass kicking dynamic career woman

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are times I have doubted myself and lost my way but I found it back and it added to my identity it didn't take away from it

Despite the pressure to be a single image ....I. e. Mum OR career woman , that's not true....but you do need to accept there are sacrifices for that

I both need and want to return to work....I have the higher earning potential and the boys need a better life. Plus I am good at what I do and I love it. Unfortunately at my level there are basically no part time jobs. It's full time or nothing .... so OK so be it

One of the sacrifices I have made is accepting that others will judge and God knows I've had enough of it....ds2 was seriously ill at birth as was I. ...and I've been told more than once how awful I am for considering working full time and don't I appreciate I could have lost him

Damn right I know I could have lost him....it was me sat next to the incubator...no other fucker. ..it was me that sobbed for two hours after I consented to the lumbar punch that put my newborn through he'll less than 24 hours after his birth when I was unable to be with him (i had blood being pumped into me and was rushed back into icu)

Point is...I've had a load of crappie but that's the price you pay, as well as a tiny guilt voice in your head.....but the pay off is my children are happy and so am I. ...I'm proud that my children will know I am an autonomous person , they already ds1 know that I adore them more than anything but that doesn't mean I stop being me

I would go so far to say I have found myself as a mother because I know exactly how strong I am now and Damn if it isn't a hundred times stronger than I was before

You may well lose yourself but what you will find is something amazing....I know you didn't mean the dusting comment as it was taken but consider this....yep now I'm at home until my job starts....I do clean three times a day...not because I give a hit about my house frankly but because I need it to be sanitary for the boys , you don't become a stepped wife unless you want to (and if you want to ...by all means cracking on....do you ...whatever that is)

But be prepared ... most other mothers are fantastic supportive and fighting the same battle to be their own person....but there are judged pants and there are those that will insist that you fit a stereo type

Stay strong and know that by finding your new identity as both you , a mother and a person is the best for you and your children

Sorry for the essay but it's a topic I feel strongly about xx

Great post euripides.

Thanks Felascloak - I do appreciate there are women out there like that, they just seem in the minority and when you're surrounded by a different type of person, you feel like a freak of nature!

I remember crying at my partner, utterly hysterical that I felt like crap in my first (and only) trimester - That I wasn't excited, or happy but I felt like crap, wanted to throw up and was really tired... I felt like an utter, utter freak. It wasn't until I found a lovely Mumsnetter (who is now an amazing Mum) who said she felt the same way - She hated pregnancy and wasn't maternal at all... the difference being, she coped and I didn't.

My partner is so easy going he's happy either way. He has said his main 'goal' is to be with me and is happy with or without children - He is one of the few people who 'gets' me and understands my 'quirks'. I guess the bottom line is however, a newborn baby / child doesn't have the memo about sleeping / behaving and therefore it is a massive shock - even more so to someone who hates change and likes processes .

Euripidesralph - Awesome post. I feel at the moment that I'd want to return to work as well, but that's just because I worked so hard at getting to where I am now. Maybe I'll change, maybe I won't - it sounds like you're in a really good place and have a strong sense of 'self', something I'd love to keep as well!

I felt awful in my first trimester and stressed I was making a huge mistake (unplanned pregnancy). It settled down once the sickness wore off and I started feeling baby movement. First trimester is a definite low point of motherhood

And I think that's the best attitude to have to be honest....you won't know until you're in that place and nor did I

And it's valid either way.... whatever choice you make

Glad if I helped in some way....and thanks I do now but there were definitely blips (one resulting in a friend organising a burlesque lesson to remind me I was a person not only a mum.....best.idea.ever lolol)...I have strange friends

Women get screwed over by being locked out of certain spheres of life, but also by having their traditional roles denigrated. Feminism seeks to change both.

You sound like you're passionate about your work - if you use childcare won't you want someone who feels that way about their work to look after your child? What about the people who may care for you in old age? It's important work that has been shamefully undervalued.

I know a couple of women who went back to work full time after 3 months. The only comments anyone has had have been along the lines of 'you hero - I would have been a sleep deprived wreck'. Equally, I don't think that maternity leave for more than 5 months is mindless drudgery.

I spent the last few years in a job that demanded most of my time and energy. I enjoyed a lot of it, but equally, it was often 100+ hours a week and I wasn't saving lives. At no point now do I wonder if what I'm doing is really important to anyone or feel like my efforts are wasted. I'm also in control of my own time in a way that is satisfying.

I think people who care about housework will do it with or without children, and those that don't, won't either way. It probably mainly depends on your baby how much time you will have for this on maternity leave. I don't manage a lot, but that doesn't mean I'm too important for dusting - it just means I have a messy house. I'm sure everyone has had colleagues who never cleans up after themselves and it's not because they're too busy being so awesome at their job they can't wash a mug. You might find that spending more time at home makes you pickier about its upkeep - this doesn't mean your world is small any more than liking to keep your desk in good order does.

If you have a good relationship with your husband and you both want an equal partnership then you should be able to make it work - I know lots of successful 2 career families, and others where work is shared because both parents prioritise family life. However, for the first stage things can't be equal due to the nature of pregnancy and birth. Even without breastfeeding the father may start parenthood a bit tired from being up for hours at a long labour, but the mother will have been through a very physically demanding experience or major operation. You may find that if you're spending more time with your baby that you become the 'expert' but this doesn't have to be the shape of things to come.

Having a baby hasn't meant I've lost my identity, but it's hard work and it has given me a greater respect for women - no wonder it's the experience that makes many into feminists.

Hear hear.

Motherhood will give OP more respect for a group of women she doesnt hold in particularly high regard.

Motherhood made me a feminist for sure. If the sacrifices and respinsibilities had been split fifty : fifty then i wouldnt have changed.

Haven't rtft but I was senior to and earning more than dh (same job) before we had kids. I went part time after dc and effectively stepped off my steady progress up the promotion ladder. Dc are now 8 and 10, dh is very senior, I do bits of part time work and have lost all interest in my career. I would happily never work again, or get a basic kind of unchallenging job for which I'd be over-qualified. The only thing pushing me back to my original career is the money and the fact that it is unfair to expect dh to earn all of it. I don't like 'wifework' and am not a houseproud type but I do pretty much all of it as I am so part time and dh works long hours. It's a bit depressing when I think of how keen I used to be on my job, but on the other hand would I want to switch places with dh? Not in a million years.

mercifultehlu I love the username

Fluffy......we are the same person, honestly. I've had a vat of wine tonight so can't speak eloquently, but honestly I felt just the same. My DD is now 3 and the light of my life. I have my old life back too....

Likewise Felascloak . When's that damn third book going to come out, eh?!

Yes! I am on tenterhooks. Must have read the first two a good dozen times

I hated the baby stage and I hated being on maternity leave. But now dp and I both work 4 days a week and dd is an amazing 2.5 year old and it's brilliant! I think you need to talk before the baby comes about sharing night wakings, early mornings, nappy changes etc. Dp and I agreed we'd each have one night a week 'off' and we each get 1 lie in at the weekend. At first it wasn't so equal due to my bfing, but he did all the nappy changes when he was home and did all the housework and cooking while I spent 4 months on the sofa feeding! The first few months can be grim, but they end, and as long as you keep talking and hold on to what makes you you you'll be fine.