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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

female genital mutilation on tv right now

72 replies

iminshock · 07/05/2016 23:30

Community Chanel .
I can hardly believe what I am seeing. Older women tying down a young girl and slicing off her clitoris, and inner and outer labia . ( type 3 FGM)
No anaesthetic , and using a razor blade that has been used many times before .
While the poor child shrieks in terror and agony the women including her mother are smiling and chanting to drown out her screams.

I cannot express my horror and sorrow on behalf of this girl and many others like her

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Bambooshoots14 · 10/05/2016 17:24

Oh my goodness I just watched it on YouTube. Horrific. The worst thing I've ever seen. That poor girl

VagueIdeas · 10/05/2016 17:32

I once watched a documentary that showed a child undergoing FGM. Think it was Channel Four, many many years ago. So the filming of FGM isn't a new or shocking thing. Profoundly depressing that nothing has changed in the intervening years though.

I agree that the problem lies with the mothers choosing it for their daughters. But I guess the alternative (and therefore being unmarriageable) is unthinkable.

As for no one suggesting men cut bits off their genitals to help with hygiene, that DOES happen. In the US where male circumcision is routine, "cleanliness" is one of the main justifications people use.

grimbletart · 10/05/2016 17:49

Yes yes Vagueideas. We all know about male circumcision and cleanliness. But you notice the wording used was "dangling like leaves" Well, if we are talking "dangling" male bits dangle a lot more than female labia but, I repeat, no one suggests cutting them off for cleanness or any other reason.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 19:20

Where's the anger at men over this? If it wasn't their attitudes and their desire to control women this wouldn't even be a thing.

PalmerViolet · 10/05/2016 19:28

Presumably it's much easier to blame the women for it.

In the societies where it's practised most, girls are often prevented from staying at school once they start menstruating, they have few options open to them outside of marriage and babies, and no possibility of marriage without having undergone FGM, because the men will not marry a girl who hasn't been cut.

Until we change the view that only cut girls can be married, or ensure there are real alternatives for girls other than marriage then those women are doing the best they can within patriarchy for their daughters. Even in this country, if girls wish to marry within their own cultural heritage, there is still great pressure on them to have been cut.

Women are doing all they can to change these circumstances, men aren't, because men seem pretty happy with the status quo, funny that, eh?

Oh, and Grimble, cadno was taking issue with your "dangly bits" comment, because he seems to think that men don't have any.

megletthesecond · 10/05/2016 19:30

On a campaigning note there is the Daughters of Eve group. They are raising awareness of FGM and based in the UK. They're on twitter too.

PalmerViolet · 10/05/2016 19:35

And Hibo Wadare has written a wonderful book "Cut", but it's not for the faint hearted.

grimbletart · 10/05/2016 19:58

Palmer: I was wondering if that was the case but it would be……..quite concerning really if he hasn't got any dangly bits….Confused

iminshock · 10/05/2016 20:32

not sure I agree that they prompte FGM because marriage is the pinacle for these women.
The one in the documentary was NOT up for getting married. It was absolutely not seen as something she aspired to - she was cajoled/forced into it.

YES to sadistic bitches.

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Grimarse · 10/05/2016 20:33

Where's the anger at men over this?

Give it time, scallops, give it time.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 20:37

I'm sure the girls aren't up for getting married iminshock. That doesn't mean to say that won't happen to them whether they want it or not.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 20:40

Or have I misunderstood what you are saying?

I don't think Palmer was suggesting it was a pinnacle. It is presented as something they have to do whilst at the same time other options are removed.

iminshock · 10/05/2016 20:47

we were discussing this today.
I live in a rough area. Several of my friends have been victims of GBH and some have been murdered.

On some basic level I understand murder.
I understand how a parent can lash out and whack their kid really hard .
I understand how partners can get into a terrible moment where one hits the other or puts their hands round their partner's neck.

Clearly the above examples are all very bad things and i don't condone them . But I do understand how they could happen.

But I will never ever understand how a mother can present her girl child to a woman with a dirty rusty blade and condone the slicing off of her beautiful and sensitive genitalia . While other women look on , whooping and laughing and making WOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOO noises to drown out the child's screams.

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iminshock · 10/05/2016 20:48

Bamboo, yes, it is the worst thing I have ever seen too

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PalmerViolet · 10/05/2016 21:03

Erm, there's no way that anyone that actually read what I wrote could possibly think that I think that marriage is any kind of pinnacle for these girls or that the girls themselves think that it is.

There's a difference between "these are the reasons that it happens" and "I agree with these reasons*

And just for info, the ululating or as you felt the need to describe it WOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOO noises is used to express strong emotion. Which they are doing for the reasons I wrote about previously.

FGM is abhorrent. Until the reasons why it happens are dealt with, any women fighting it (and it is women who are fighting it) will face an uphill battle.

iminshock · 10/05/2016 21:25

Aisha, 33

"What I vividly remember is my sister and I were playing, and a woman came and took us. This was in The Gambia, and I was 6 and my sister was 3 at the time. This woman was known in the village, and she told us she was taking us somewhere to see something. Like little kids do, we tagged along. We went into a home, and immediately women grabbed and blindfolded us and tied us to some thick bushes.

I could smell the leaves, the dirt, everything around us. I knew we were no longer in a home setting, but outside somewhere. There was loud drumming and older women were singing songs, which I was too young to understand. I could hear other kids crying out in pain, but I didn't know why.

I was dragged to a fence covered in leaves, and they took the blindfold off. I could see the other girls bleeding and sobbing in pain. I saw an old woman holding a knife so sharp I could see the drops of blood sliding down the edge. It was the blood of the other girls.

Three other women were holding down my arms and legs, and another was sitting right on my chest, covering my mouth. They try to put pressure on you, so you don't cry for the next girl to hear. I can still feel the weight of her today. I can still visualize all their faces as I talk about this. I can see what each one of them looks like and the emotions that they had — so empty, like they didn't see me as a human being.

The cutting happens very fast. What the cutter does is hold on to your clitoris to make sure she gets that and scrapes everything else that comes along with it — all of the labia, if they can. I fought the whole time, and as a result, only my clitoris and part of my left labia are cut. The other side is still intact. My mother told me recently that when this happens they will often wait until the girl has a child. Then they will finish the job, cutting everything off they didn't get the first time.

After all the girls in my group were cut, we were left to bleed into little dirt holes for hours. Finally, when it became dark, we were taken to the home of the woman who did the cutting and crowded into one room to heal. We were there three months. We ate out of one shared bowl.

In the morning, we would wake up, line up, and receive our "treatment." They took dried leaves and placed them on the wound and that would stay on for two to three days. Then they would rip it off and put another one on until the tissue began to scar. Every morning a woman came in to teach us songs, and if we didn't memorize the words, she would beat us. We were also taught, every day, that if we ever talked about this, if we even mentioned it, they would kill us.

I became friends with these girls. We bonded and ended up going to school together. I learned two of them later died in childbirth, which was too difficult for them because of FGM. They bled to death.

At the end of the three months, there was a ceremony to celebrate that we had gone through the rite of passage. My mother came to pick us up, and I kept asking, "Why did they do this to me? Where were you?"

She just responded, "They told you not to say anything, right? Then don't talk about it." I never got an explanation until years later. I work in health care now, and I have so many questions about my health that has to do with something so significant regarding my genitalia. "

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iminshock · 10/05/2016 21:37

"Women are doing all they can to change these circumstances, men aren't, because men seem pretty happy with the status quo"

thankfully this is not the case.
Did you see the documentary?

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NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 10/05/2016 21:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 21:51

"I understand how partners can get into a terrible moment where one hits the other or puts their hands round their partner's neck." Except that almost never happens. There is abusive controlling behaviour prior to murdering their partners (or the murderer is the one being abused and snaps).

No I haven't seen the documentary. I also haven't seen men stand up and be counted on this subject. I have seen scores of women however. And considering how much coverage men get in the media etc in comparison to women that's quite unusual.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 21:53

But yeah let's make this all about how women are responsible for their own oppression and if only we'd behave differently men wouldn't oppress us. Nicely letting men off the hook.

As usual.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 10/05/2016 21:57

Do you really think these women liked that they were butchered and have probably had ongoing problems because of this

Do you really think a mother wants her daughter go through fgm for no other reason than she has been brainwashed into thinking it is the right thing to do for her daughter and her daughter will do better in life (and get a husband) if it is done

There might be the odd women who enjoys mutilating young girls but the reason it is done is to please men to uphold an idea that men have had of how women should be and to stop women from straying out of he home ..... Basically to stop women wanting to have sex because if they do they can't help themselves Hmm and will bring shame on the family and be all know what happens to women in many of these countries who do supposedly being shame on the family

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 10/05/2016 22:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 22:26

I would also say that men have also been conditioned. Misogyny is conditioning after all. The difference is that men don't have to go through an excruciatingly painful humiliating experience which has lifelong serious health implications.

scallopsrgreat · 10/05/2016 22:28

...to satisfy women's ideal of what is a man.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/05/2016 22:28

The full documentary is on YouTube. The scene of actual cutting is brief and the documentary is worth watching.

The cutters interviewed seemed to have no doubts at all about the merits of what they were doing.

One mother was very forceful that she was not going to allow it to happen to her daughter - and didn't.

There were several religious leaders discussing whether the Koran permits or even requires female circumcision. The Grand Mufti of Egypt was sure it has no religious justifcation and is wrong but opinion was divided.

And just for info, the ululating or as you felt the need to describe it WOOLOOLOOLOOLOOLOO noises is used to express strong emotion. Which they are doing for the reasons I wrote about previously

I'm not going to watch it again but I think the voice over referred to it as being to drown out the noise. The women didn't seem particularly to be expressing strong emotion.