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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ian McEwan on gender identity

84 replies

MoonriseKingdom · 02/04/2016 23:25

gu.com/p/4t3f7?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Article about a recent talk by Ian McEwan. I'm not sure what prompted the topic to come up but he seems quite well informed on some of the concerns that have been discussed on here. I think his description of people seeing their identity in a consumerist way was interesting. I expect he won't be invited to speak in any university debates any time soon.

OP posts:
EnthusiasmDisturbed · 03/04/2016 22:55

Call me old-fashioned, but I tend to think of people with penises as men

I do too Ian but keep being told by men wearing dresses they are women just like I am Hmm

I loved Atonement once I could get into it took a few tries

AdventuresOfADentist · 03/04/2016 23:09

Love him or loathe him, I think Richard Dawkins was saying something sensible on this topic recently (as well as other things relating to feminism). Will try and find the article.

RomComPhooey · 03/04/2016 23:31

Richard Dawkins is officially one of the awkward squad. The world's a better place for having of few of them about. If you can find the article, Adventures, the link would be welcome.

SilverBirchWithout · 04/04/2016 00:35

I loved Saturday, I liked that it focussed on the main character and his relatively uneventful life and that it had a cohesive narrative rather than story. I couldn't put it down until I finished.

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 04/04/2016 02:11

I wonder if he's been threatened with rape, being set on fire or murder yet? Something tells me he hasn't, that type of vitriol is only reserved for women.

Cocoabutton · 04/04/2016 07:40

I just checked the Guardian mobile site to see if there were opinion pieces decrying him yet.

Interested to see whether there are any letters in the Times too, either way, after their editorial.

Grimarse · 04/04/2016 10:06

I wonder if he's been threatened with rape, being set on fire or murder yet? Something tells me he hasn't, that type of vitriol is only reserved for women.

Why was this comment necessary? It isn't even true.

GreenTomatoJam · 04/04/2016 10:30

He has had death/rape threats then?

Or are you suggesting that women who speak out on this don't get threats? They do, just check twitter.

merrymouse · 04/04/2016 10:53

Whoever he is and whatever his sex, I think it is good that he said what he said. Yes he won't suffer as much vitriol as Germaine Greer, but it doesn't help anyone if only Germaine Greer is prepared to speak.

Grimarse · 04/04/2016 10:56

Claiming that only women receive online harassment, threats of harm, threats of murder etc is patently untrue, and also derailing. Why post it at all? The discussion was moving along nicely without the hyperbole.

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 04/04/2016 16:23

Well because women who post anything that can be vaguely interpreted as "transphobic" are usually rounded upon by trans activists and receive vile abuse. Maybe men do get the same treatment but I haven't seen it tbh. What's hyperbole about that?

Grimarse · 04/04/2016 16:47

What is hyperbolic is claiming that something only happens to women, and that men are exempt. It may happen more frequently to women. It may be more upsetting to women. Either of those are possible. But this need to wear victimhood as some sort of badge of honour has me scratching my head. I see it from time to time on this board, and this time, I thought I'd ask.

The whole trans phenomena passes most men by, to be honest. I tend to avoid the threads as they have no impact on me directly, and seem to be just a giant slanging match. There seems to be some sort of niche conflict going on in this area, that only feminists and trans people are aware of. However, I read McEwan's article on Saturday, so this thread caught my eye.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 04/04/2016 17:01

I am not sure men are going to be threatened with violence and rape from other men trans activists as they are not so vulnerable to their threats

I wish more high profile women did speak out but I understand why they don't

SpeakNoWords · 04/04/2016 17:06

Ian McEwan doesn't seem to have his own twitter account, which may account for the lack of aggression directed at him, as perhaps these twitterers prefer to attack their target directly. There seems to be a fair amount of ageism, but none of the ire and hatred that was directed at GG.

WindyMillersProbationOfficer · 04/04/2016 17:09

So complaining about receiving death and rape threats is now 'wearing victimhood as a badge of honour'?

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 04/04/2016 17:10

So even if this kind of abuse is aimed predominately, maybe even exclusively, at women, we aren't allowed to talk or complain it because men? Ok

Can you link to where a man has received public rape and death threats from trans activists?

FloraFox · 04/04/2016 17:10

Grimarse if you are not engaged in discussions about trans politics you are not informed about the different treatment of men and women on the topic.

SpeakNoWords · 04/04/2016 17:10

Grimarse wants to tell everyone how to discuss this correctly. Hyperbole is not allowed!

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 04/04/2016 17:11

complain about* it

WindyMillersProbationOfficer · 04/04/2016 17:15

Don't be daft, Flora, Grimarse has obviously been blessed with the All-Seeing Eye when it comes to feminism.

Grimarse · 04/04/2016 17:29

If by your original comment, you meant that only women get on-line abuse from transactivists, about trans issues, then I take your point and I withdraw my comment. That is not how I read it. I was referring to online abuse in the wider context.

PalmerViolet · 04/04/2016 17:30

Don't be daft, Flora, Grimarse has obviously been blessed with the All-Seeing Eye when it comes to feminism.

Haven't all men?

And please, don't be giving Grim a gentle ribbing. It's almost as bad as having a man tell me that he knows where I live and will be round to pour petrol through the letterbox.

Must remember to take off my victimhood badge when I go out, wouldn't want anyone to think that death threats were scary now... or hyperbolic.

WeMustSurelyBeLearning · 04/04/2016 17:33

Yes I meant abuse from trans activists which is (almost?) exclusively aimed at women. I thought that was obvious given the context of this thread.

Grimarse · 04/04/2016 17:42

Ah. Now comes the forced sarcasm and strained jokes......

WeMust, I misunderstood your reference. I withdraw my comment.

PalmerViolet · 04/04/2016 17:45

I don't have to force sarcasm, Grim, I'm a natural.

It was a cross post with your apology.

So I apologise I cross posted with you.

I withdraw my excellent sarcasm. The threat to me wasn't a joke so I don't withdraw that.