Equality vs merit vs markets

[MN164]

Help me out. Instinctively, tennis pay should be the same for men and women. However, does merit or demand and the market come in to the debate at all?

Should people be measured on success or gender?

I'm confused, so help me out with the arguments for equality and egalitarianism here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35859791

redshoeblueshoe: "Sadly Andy Murray said the same thing as Djokovic a few years ago."

I was disappointed to read this. I found this quote attributed to AM in the Daily Telegraph from last July

"Because it’s not best of five sets for the women, it’s much easier to play singles and doubles, so therefore more chance to make money that way, because there’s very few of the singles guys that have a chance or a realistic shot of winning the event will be playing doubles here.”

Is this what you were referring to?

It's interesting, because what he actually said was

He said: “Obviously it’s a very delicate situation. Women deserve respect and admiration for what they are doing. You know, equal prize money was the main subject of the tennis world in the last seven, eight years. I have been through that process as well so I understand how much power and energy WTA and all the advocates for equal prize money have invested in order to reach that.

“I applaud them for that, I honestly do. They fought for what they deserve and they got it. On the other hand I think that our men’s tennis world, ATP world, should fight for more because the stats are showing that we have much more spectators on the men’s tennis matches. I think that’s one of the reasons why maybe we should get awarded more. Women should fight for what they think they deserve and we should fight for what we think we deserve."

At no point does he say anything derogatory about women, or belittle them.

Although, from the way it is being reported, you would be forgiven for thinking he had.

Interestingly, the other comments by the CEO of Indian Wells where he says women should bow down to men aren't getting half the attention or condemnation

What about the rest of what he said:

^"I have tremendous respect for what women in global sport are doing and achieving. Their bodies are much different to men’s bodies. They have to go through a lot of different things that we don’t have to go through. You know, the hormones and different stuff, we don’t need to go into details.

I have great admiration and respect for them to be able to fight on such a high level. Many of them have to sacrifice for certain periods of time, the family time or decisions that they make on their own bodies in order to play tennis and play professional sport.

I have had a woman that was my coach and that was a huge part of my tennis career. I’m surrounded by women. I’m very happy to be married with one and to have a child. I’m completely for women power."^

I find the crap about "hormones" to be belittling, tbh.

his wife is a tennis player, perhaps he is extrapolating from what she has been though. I don't know.

He is certainly not suggesting women should be paid less, or are worth less or are less athletic than men

Thanks for the wider story crappymummy and SpeakNoWords, those quotes do paint a different picture

I think the outrage with Djokovic is that he chose to wade in after the comments made by the Indian Wells man, when he really didn't need to get involved. I also find that someone who earnt about $20m dollars last year, complaining about how they aren't paid enough compared to the best woman in the same sport (who earnt about $10m dollars last year) to be just pathetic.

The bigger quotes are much more interesting. Possibly the media up to their usual tricks.

i have no idea if he was asked for comment, or if he phoned up newspapers to share his thoughts

fair enough you find it pathetic that he thinks he should be paid more

He was asked about it as part of an interview following his win at Indian Wells. Clearly it was unfair to ask him about it.

it was not unfair to ask him about his opinion

It is unfair to criticise him for things he has not said

it may also be unfair to criticise him for the lack of coverage women's sport relieves. I am not sure what he could be doing to alleviate that

Grimarse

"Can we also establish that millions of men play football, and only a tiny proportion make a fortune?"

Actually, this nailed it for me. We are worrying about how a handful of elitely wealthy sportspeople are doing when the vast majority of people are never going to be faced with that disparity. It's the everyday pay gap between men and women, the 99.99% that aren't sports stars, that is the issue.

I think the whole story is a red herring. I'm sorry I raised it now.

I started a thread here to talk about equal pay for non global superstars if you are interested

"It's the everyday pay gap between men and women, the 99.99% that aren't sports stars, that is the issue."

Exactly! This just serves as a distraction tactic when discussing the more important issue.

Also the WTA requested to play 5 sets. It was rejected. Not their fault.