Why are men so turned off by women with short hair?

[MissTessmacher]

Just idly musing.

I recently cut my hair quite drastically. Changed my photo on OLD to one with the new do (previous photo was very glam/pin-up style with shoulder length hair).

I've gone from a very steady average of 10-15 messages a day to zero .

It's not the first time I've observed this phenomenon. The few times before I've cut my hair very short I have noticed it's like a cloak of invisibility when it comes to men.

Anyone care to enlighten me? Is it because women with short hair are considered unfeminine? (What a crock of shit if so).

[Salene]

Isn't it the old age rule

Men have short hair
Women have long hair.

I suggested getting my hair cut short my OH said oh please don't, short hair on girls looks like a bloke

So there's a mans point of view. I'm sure it's not every mans view but a few as I brought it up work and got a similar response.

[Destinysdaughter]

I love long hair on men but not many can pull it off. Straggly ponytails are not a good look!

I had an Asian boyfriend who had beautiful thick wavy shoulder length hair and it really suited him. Was lovely to run my hands through it. Wish more men had hair like that!

[SomeDyke]

I have very strong memories of my school days and rejecting the pressure from other girls to do the whole obsession with your appearance girly thing. Although I was slightly excused because I was seen as academic and being dykey was thankfully still below the radar. Which is what I meant by the academic proto dyke line.

[BertrandRussell]

And, as I said earlier- there has to be social conditioning for some people to reject it. And rejecting it is acknowledging it and conforming in a different way. So the system's got you coming and going!

[Holowiwi]

Why are men who like long hair thick? Are women that like tall men thick? How about liking men who are not bald? Or one that's currently a hot topic on MN liking a man with a good earning potential?

[BertrandRussell]

I think the "thick" comment was in relation to men who buy into the long haired big busted tiny waisted high heeled stereotype of feminine beauty.

[SurferJet]

I haven't got a problem with that as I'm only attracted to the stereotypical tall,dark, handsome man.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

The quotes you give suggest that men who like women with long hair are thick, not the women with long hair!

Er, yes. That is what I said. This thread has had men who like women with long hair being called thick (or similar wording)

I referrred to men being called thick. I commented on- the assumption that menwho like women with long hair lack intellect.

What grates is the superior attitude of not only being a woman who is above social conditioning - and wow , you get a more intelligent man as well.

I saw your response about no-one being free of social conditioning, maybe not but does that justify the smugness by those who clearly think they resist it better than others?

As almond said a while back - feminism is about criticising other women's hairstyle,?

[Bullshitometer]

I don't think it's anything to do with hair, I think it's to do with perceptions of age which is a proxy for naivety, perhaps vulnerability but most certainly fertility.

The longer, more luscious hair you have, the younger and more fertile you are perceived to be. Moreover, the younger you are, the more likely you are to put up with shit behaviour in relationships due to lack of experience and confidence.

I speak as a 30 year old woman currently with a blonde long bob but I've also had very short pink pixie, very short black pixie, very long red curls and very long mousey brown tresses.

[BertrandRussell]

"I saw your response about no-one being free of social conditioning, maybe not but does that justify the smugness by those who clearly think they resist it better than others?"

Oh, I do struggle with this. OK. We are all subject to social conditioning. However there are plenty of people who vociferously deny that they are. Is it "smug" to suggest that we all are, and that it might be a good idea if they consider wither they are actually as free from influence as they think they are? How does any of us learn anything, or develop or grow if we don't listen and think about what other people have to say? Listen and reject, if you want to, but listen!

[BertrandRussell]

And, actually, I don't think anyone has been smug. It's such a dismissive, closing down accusation. We're discussing. We're sharing experiences. You appear to be the only one going on about people being smug, and women criticizing each other and being superior.

[Quiero]

Christ, another depressing thread. There's no better evidence of the patriarchy dong it's job than when women start denying socialisation and accusing others of smugness and suchlike.

To attempt to get back on track, I simply cannot accept that hair length and its perceived attractiveness is anything but a feminist issue. Even comments about whether it suits your chin or what not scream of socialisation to me.

Of course men are also judged by their looks/hair length etc but to claim it is to anywhere near the same extent as women is reductive.

[DrSeussRevived]

Good post Quiero.

[mercifulTehlu]

I totally agree with Quiero but it's such a difficult argument because it's about personal taste. And people can't help what they do or don't find attractive, whether that's down to socialisation or not.

So... I don't find long hair on men attractive. Is that because I have been conditioned to think long hair is un-masculine? I don't know - I just don't tend to find it attractive. Presumably many men would truthfully say 'It's not that I don't think women with short can be feminine or attractive. It's just that I tend to find long hair on women attractive'. It's not as if the vast majority of men would actually consciously think 'short hair equals masculine and unattractive' (at least I doubt they would ).

[PalmerViolet]

Good post Quiero, totally on point.

[TeiTetua]

I don't think the word "reductive" (which I had to look up) applies here.

What I think ought to be recognized is that when it comes to matters of appearance, women typically have far more options than men, and women are judged on how well they make choices that match their circumstances, or "suit them" or don't look like the dreaded "mutton dressed as lamb". Whereas men are expected to wear something like a uniform, one style fits all, and they're criticized for not wearing it properly, and if they pass muster they're ignored. As with that Australian TV presenter (male, of course) who wore the same suit for a year, and nobody noticed.

As sometimes gets mentioned here, "choice" can be a slippery concept. We're under all kinds of influences, some of them openly coercive and some very subtle. It's hard to say what we really genuinely like, if we've grown up in a particular environment. And there's a word I've seen, "homosocial" which means that people feel impelled to do things that others are doing in a group that they want to feel a part of. For instance, there seems to be a range of "lesbian hairstyles" that lesbians might have opinions about, but they don't seem to argue with the idea that those styles are going to exist. If the title of this thread is accurate, maybe that means there are certain things that women do (i.e. have short hair, maybe even no hair) if being attractive to men isn't an issue for them. But then, if we've grown up in a conventional way, what we've lived with all her life is what's comfortable, and if we find something unfamiliar, we might just not find it attractive.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Listen and reject, if you want to, but listen!

I have "listened and rejected" No doubt the response will be - but no you haven't, not really, you only think you have- socialisation and all that. Trump card.

Quiero would you prefer if women deliberately chose hairstyles, clothes , styled generally that didn't "suit" them? That made them look as unattractive as possible?

Your posts seem to disregard the idea of choosing a personal style for oneself.

A poster asked "who are you doing it for"
I am doing it for myself but answers like Bert's insistence that it's socialisation denies that- can't possibly be.

So sorry I stand by what I said . No matter what my opinions are on other current threads -say the Breitling one or the surrogacy thread - I find this thread irksome and depressing and an example of the patronising navel- gazing which puts me off identifying as a feminist (on which subject there have been several threads in the last few days)

[BertrandRussell]

Oh, Lass, you are the mistress of the selective c&p.

[RufusTheReindeer]

I have hair in a similar style to jamie lee curtis, tiny little "sideburns"

Hairdresser suggested cutting them off to do something different (she hasnt much to work with to be fair) and dh said no as it would make me look more manly

He is convinced that my short hair makes me look like a man. Every female i know says it suits me, women have stopped me in the street and at work (in a shop) to ask me who cuts it and how i style it...but it makes me look like a man to dh

I wear a tonne of makeup and shave so i am not being "smug" but i think it is socialisation

Dh would love a tiny blonde petite thing with long hair but he's got me

[SueTrinder]

I have hair in a similar style to jamie lee curtis, tiny little "sideburns"

Oh, she's got gorgeous hair, my hairdresser cuts my Mum's hair when she comes to visit and he does it like JLC when her hair is particularly short and it looks amazing (Mum's got gorgeous grey hair as well, here's hoping I inherit that gene).

Do you know, the funny thing is the women whose hair I like the most do seem to have short hair, probably just because it stands out these days when the fashion is for long hair. The DDs both have bobs and they get lots of compliments on them from adults. Everyone loves a bob on a little girl. But they both have the shortest hair of all the girls in their year at school.

[RufusTheReindeer]

sue

I love her hair, i had mine cut a long long time ago and it didn't look much like hers but now it is about 3 quarters black/dark brown and about a quarter grey more people are commenting

I almost cant wait to go completely grey, sort of a jamie lee curtis/judi dench look

[AthelstaneTheUnready]

I've had my hair long most of my life, but very short on three or four occasions. Reading this thread, I realise that every time I've cut it short has been after a dodgy relationship and actually must have been some internal desire not to be noticed by men, or give off any sort of availability/feminine/swishy signals.

So clearly I must think that long hair is come hither, and short hair is fuck off, but I had no idea I thought that way. Currently it's now jaw length and now I have no idea whether to grow it, cut it again, or change my attitude...

[PalmerViolet]

That might be an interesting piece of research Athelstane.

There's all sorts of other things that we do unconsciously due to influence from all kinds of different places. I'm sure there has been research done on some aspects of it, probably this as well.

[SomeDyke]

"And people can't help what they do or don't find attractive, whether that's down to socialisation or not."

"and if we find something unfamiliar, we might just not find it attractive."

Okay, that is the key for me, this feeling, most;y subjective, that we find something attractive or not. Whether it is ourselves or others. Claims that people can't help it -- I just think back to, say, the fashion trend of the eighties, or seventies, or some other embarrassing era, where things we might have considered attractive or desirable then, we would now find hideous. Very few attractive things are even labelled timeless. It's all mutable, once you get beyond the clear-skinned, looks younger and symmetrical stuff. Which is basically biology (have you got good genes, no significant parasite load, sexually mature but not too old and decrepit to reproduce successfully?).

Although the claim, 'I just don't find it attractive/I just find x attractive', is often used (by lesbians in my examples), to explain why someone insists on a girlfriend with long blonde hair, or won't go out with a black woman, or won't go out with a fat woman.

It's the whole trained fascination with appearance and 'attractiveness', there's yer problem!

[VestalVirgin]

Although the claim, 'I just don't find it attractive/I just find x attractive', is often used (by lesbians in my examples), to explain why someone insists on a girlfriend with long blonde hair, or won't go out with a black woman, or won't go out with a fat woman.

I get why maybe lesbians are doing this, but men are not usually pressured to go out with women they don't find attractive, so that can't be the reason, can it?