The Guardian's censorship of women's comments

[WombOfOnesOwn]

Today, just like many other days, an article was posted on The Guardian about transgender issues, and MANY women responded with reasonable concerns. Their comments just like on many other days disappeared without a trace, deleted because they didn't toe the party line on trans issues.

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/46b82s/the_guardian_publishes_an_article_on_bathroom/

Commenters on this forum cite that The Guardian is the third-most viewed news website in the world. How many women read these cleansed-out comments section and feel like they must be the only woman in the world who doesn't think trans women are exactly like other women, should be allowed to participate in women's sporting events, et cetera?

In some ways, it almost seems like gaslighting -- in many of these situations, a tremendous majority of the comments are deleted, leaving only comments from the viewpoint of a small minority (who then look like their viewpoint is the popular one, for anyone reading the story after the erasure). Women's views on this subject are being erased.

Maybe it's time to start an email campaign to The Guardian and let them know that if they discard women's viewpoints, they can also kiss our clicks and subscriptions goodbye. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

MagicalRealist

I can't even see that you have had comments deleted (I can see "This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs." for other deleted comments). Do they have separate comments for the mobile version?

How about we get the editor of the Guardian on for a webchat so that we can challenge them (him?) about it?

CiF is a disgrace.

I used to get the Guardian every day for years but I rarely bother to click on it now, it's so boring and samey. And yeh, you just get censored while all the misogynistic racist twats get to have their posts stay up.

It's a shame, the Guardian had a proud history, but it's really shit now.

I made a complaint, for what it's worth. I find this genuinely scary.

CiF has always been known round our way as "Mysogeny is Free"

Well done Lumpy. I'm planning to complain as well once I've worked out what to say.

Basil it would be great to get the editor on here, perhaps mumsnet owners might be able to swing it??

It's interesting that trans critical comments are being removed, presumably on the grounds of being "extremely offensive or threatening" or "forms of hate-speech, or contributions that could be interpreted as such." (Quoted bits are from the community standards guidelines).

Yet some of the pro transgender posters on there write things that I for one, find genuinely offensive and threatening. For example, belittling and minimising the concerns of women who have misgivings about adult males being allowed access to female only facilities. But this is ok, apparently. It's only the feelings of transgender people that count.

MagicalRealist, your comments were as inoffensive as it gets! How could they justify those deletions? This is ridiculous.

Does anyone have a link to the article in the Guardian?

I actually specifically name-changed because I felt unable to post freely under my old name and wanted to discuss these issues. I feel very differently about my body and my status as a woman since having a baby. I feel that I should be able to celebrate being a woman and what my body has achieved. I have been a passionate feminist since I was a teenager but suddenly I feel like my views aren't valid and it has thrown me. I have always felt that men and women were different but equal, in the sense that there is a clear biological difference and that counts for a lot, mainly when it comes to physical strength and reproduction. I have always wanted to take the most liberal and progressive stance and so have been uncritically pro-transgender rights until discovering MN. I really am pro, but not at the expense of biological women. I don't know what I think a fair society would look like with regards to gender, but denying biological differences doesn't feel quite right. I want to be proud that my powerful female body grew a child and now sustains him. I want to see feminists fighting for mothers to be valued in society. I feel like saying trans women are women just like me isn't quite right. I support and respect them and I really do care, but the discrimination they face, and their life experiences just cannot be the same as a biological woman in my opinion. I resent being called transphobic when I genuinely care about trans women but believe their battles are different and that biological women's issues should not be ignored.

What I mean is that I don't think it is wrong to discuss what an inclusive society could look like and work with the premise that trans women are not exactly the same as biological women. But if I say that there is a difference I feel shouted down. I have never been accused of being prejudiced before!

This is a disgrace. Cif allows extremely misogynist comments to stand, but censors women making reasonable points. I won't buy it again.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/18/biggest-feminist-issue-international-womens-day
I might have used this as a bit of a soapbox! One response can be written off but if we all get in there.....

Good link Vince, nice to get all that off my chest!

Well, I initially received a reply to say that I had complained to the wrong department and needed to complain to the mods, which I did. My email was acknowledged and then...nothing...

They know women don't really have a voice so we can just be deleted, and ignored, twas ever thus.

I feel sad, and very, very angry.

The Guardian is just a bloody sick joke these days.

All sites with a moderation policy exclude a proportion of comments.

Newspapers do it to suit their editorial line, not just to protect themselves against legal difficulty.

I have to say that I've disliked the Guardian for years (haven't read it regularly since my 20s). And so I suggest you vote with your feet and buy a different newspaper.

An online storm falls into the 'all publicity is good publicity' category.

(And worth remembering that comments on other newspapers, such as the Daily Mail, are no more no less representative of the readership than those of the Guardian).

I can barely even read the Guardian any more these days and I am as much as dyed-in-the-wool muesli eating Guardianista as you could imagine. What the hell has happened to it?? Not just the hateful, hateful creeping misogyny, but the standard of journalism has slid into the gutter. It's gone all click-baity and horrid.

Where do you get your news from instead? Times is out because Murdoch, Torygraph because yuk (and I don't like the website), indy is gone, isn't it? (and I never liked the website), bbc is too dumbed down, so where can I get my news?

Oh yeah, the Mail, I forgot about that in my list. I could always read the mail, it's on my to-do list right after gouging out my own eyeballs with a spoon.

Thanks for the link Vince:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/18/biggest-feminist-issue-international-womens-day

I have also used it as a bit of a soapbox now.

I used to read the Guardian, I now stick to The Times as my only English newspaper and flick between the English language version of German and French newspapers (and occasionally try to read them in the original language when I want to convince myself my A-levels weren't a complete sham)

I find the French and German articles far more fact based and interested in analysis of the situation rather than opinion based and scaremongering. Der Spiegel and Le Monde are good places to start but do lack the focus on UK news (unsurprisingly)

ha, funny, I do actually read Le Monde! (I live in France). But I prefer to keep a finger on the pulse of UK news too, and as my French is only intermediate level, it's still easier for me to read in English. I didn't know they had an English language version, I'll have a look.

Sorry Selkie - I think LeMonde is only French (although tends to work with Google translate) - its France24 which is available in English.

I read all the papers, Huffington, Mail, Guardian, Torygraph, independent, BBC, ITV etc The articles come up on my FB feed.

I had some of my comments instantly deleted.

I wonder if the comments monitors are trans as even the most light question or query about sharing women's space gets instantly deleted.

The independent don't seem to be deleting.

The guardian has lost all grip on reality.

Posie I assumed the guardian are using a transwoman to do the moderating too. It's such a different approach from the one they take on racist and sexist comments.