How can this even be a thing? Outraged

[Twink]

As an engineer turned physics and maths teacher, I'm furious about this. I work really hard to encourage students with low self confidence to believe in themselves, then shit like this appears!

I'm an agility coach among other things - challenge accepted, I'll see if I can sell this terminology to a few client projects here and there ...

What really bothers me about hiring or staffing women is that many of us just seem so ... deferential. This is something that I find really hard to sell in a setting where our clients often hire us because they're basically doing stuff wrong. I need people to be able to challenge assumptions and ideas. Men tend to do this way better IME (won't go into the obvious and less obvious reasons here). Many men even do this when they obviously have no clue what the hell they're talking about.

And this is precisely why stuff like the phone sock is so harmful. Women don't only need technical or math skills, they also need the confidence to see themselves as competent in their field in order to really excel or they will forever remain junior employees. Reinforcing stereotypes such as this is just so very unhelpful in that respect.

GreenTomatoJam and MagicalHamSandwich I have been working as a software developer for 14 years and I have only worked directly with one other woman in the whole of my career. At the moment there is only one other woman working in IT in the organisation where I work and we don't work together directly. It gets a bit lonely/odd in some ways the lack of female company.

What is your position, Toast? I've found it easier to get women on the team once I moved up to a place where I was in charge of it.

TBH the co-workers I have the strongest personal bond with are both men. They're my mentors and I like them enormously (and vice versa). I do really try to mentor the junior women around me, though, (no women on my own level of seniority around here either) and hope that in time I'll build some strong connections with them, too.

At the moment there is only one other woman working in IT in the organisation where I work and we don't work together directly. It gets a bit lonely/odd in some ways the lack of female company.

That's why I like going to women in technology events.

I am mostly not deferential, but I do try and be constructive in my criticism. Unfortunately, we have a manager with almost no people skills, who takes any criticism as a personal attack, rather than looking at ways of doing things better.

I have worked with 3 in current role (1 still here, others moved on), 1 sysadmin, 6 test engineers (1 was ex-dev); role before was, erm 7 female devs (inc 2 at tech lead/architect level - i.e. highest tech track role), 4 testers, sysadmins were in next room so not counting them, plus 2 team managers.

Looks like I have been hogging all the women programmers. Sorry!

Have always worked in private sector, don't know what public sector is like. Mix of big corp & very small co.

Love "Agile working".

Slightlyglitteredbrained if you are in the south east perhaps you can pm me where you work? Sounds great. Looks like there are loads of women in tech frequenting the feminist pages of mumsnet at any rate.

I work in a flat organisation with no special titles but I figure that by salary and responsibility and experience I am at the top of the tech range. I would like to be a team leader at some point but the kids are still little and I feel more like I want to lean out not in right now.

I think the guys I work with are lovely by the way. But I can go weeks without having more than a passing chat with a woman.

Looks like there are loads of women in tech frequenting the feminist pages of mumsnet at any rate.

Nothing like being a woman in tech to bring out any feminist tendencies!

No, indeed there isn't. It only takes one or two condescending sysadmins or devs in order to turn a bright eyed young graduate into a flame spewing dragon crusading for gender equality in tech - seen it happen on myself and am now seeing it on my own graduate scheme trainees.

Ebearhug, that is exactly what I said to some school friends I met for dinner.

Working in tech I almost forget that there are areas like being a Gp where women really do hold lots of influence and must del like equality has been almost achieved.

Seriously though I don't know if I would recommend the tech route to my daughter.

It gets better - it seriously does.

Working your way up the ladder makes it easier. Every woman you get onto your team makes it easier. Every harrassment case won makes it easier.

When the going gets tough I like to tell myself that we're trailblazers for the onslaught of concentrated female tech savvyness that's sure to follow in our tracks. A girl can dream, right?

But you have to get up the ladder, and as far as I can see, my department are more interested in removing the rungs to protect their own positionsite.