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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Networks and their constant emphasis on men

62 replies

MrsFogi · 26/01/2016 15:17

Over the years I have been active in womens networks (both work ones and wider industry/sector ones) but I am always amazed at the sheer effort and emphasis that seems to be put on attracting men/increasing male membership/getting more men to attend. Somehow networks that are supposed to focus on women end up spending 90% of their time on men. This seems crazy to me - ethnic minority networks don't seem to have attracting white people at the top of their agendas, lgbt don't beg hetrosexuals to run them. Why do womens networks seem to do this? Tbh it is why I always leave as I don't want to attend panels where men are speaking with the sole "qualification" that they "let their wife work" so "must understand working women's issues". Whenever I have mentioned this at network meetings I have been absolutely shot down in flames so I suspect I am missing something/the same may happen here on my first foray into the feminism chat forum.

OP posts:
EBearhug · 27/01/2016 23:35

I have a lot to thank my women's network at work for. I've learnt way more about the company through it than I ever would through my own department, who are way too insular. I've learnt about how what departments do; I've learnt about things the company offers, such as tuition assistance funding, which the rest of my department now also know about. I've met all sorts of people I never would in the course of my day job, from all sorts of departments and locations and all levels of seniority. I've got involved in a project alongside my day job, just through talking to another woman at a women's event we held, and saying what she was doing was really interesting - and she's becoming a great friend personally, too. It makes me feel less isolated - I'm in a very male-dominated, techy department. It's given me opportunities to do things I wouldn't get in the course of my day job, including organising a "bring your children to work" event, and speaking on the challenges for women in STEM at a panel discussion at a diversity event held at work. It's just given me other contacts to talk to when I think my dear managers are being particularly crap at the people-management side of things - and it's given me the confidence to stand up and talk about those things.

And the fact that initially git manager tried to prevent me from being involved is reason enough for it to exist and me to be involved. (I was a bit disappointed he backed down on that - I suspect someone had a word, but I was quite looking forward to him going up against some senior women and the head of HR on that one.)

I work in IT - the majority of my colleagues are male. A lot of the managers are male. We do need men to be on board, at least some of them - there's no point educating women about things like unconscious bias if none of the male managers doing the hiring have any awareness of it. We need the men controlling the budgets to approve funding for some of the events. But it is all run by women, and the various events we run are attended almost entirely by women. Some male colleagues said, when I asked why they hadn't attended a particular event which would have been useful to them, and which I had made sure they were aware about, "but it'll be all women!" I responded with a withering look, and pointed out that it's been like that for me almost every single day of my career, and maybe they should consider how it feels for everyone else around who isn't a white male.

A well-organised women's network is definitely a treasure. I was contacted today about a job opportunity elsewhere. One of the things putting me off is that nowhere on the information I have about the company does it mention anything about a women's network or whether they have policies supporting women in any way. I've previously been interviewed by a company where I knew very quickly that I really wouldn't be comfortable working for them - it seemed very female-unfriendly, and I've developed a pretty thick skin after 20 years in IT. There are some pretty good employers around, but there are still others which are proving why there are still problems with attracting women into tech roles.

EBearhug · 27/01/2016 23:39

run a programming workshop with 100% male coaches and it's not giving women the idea they can succeed

Yep - as I've pointed out at work before, there is just one other woman in my direct reporting line, and she's quite a few layers up and based in the USA. None of that makes me feel there's much chance of advancing up my current role. Not all departments are as bad, but women do need to see other women at all levels - not just junior and C-suite, shipped in from overseas, and no women in between. They need to be visible at all levels.

slightlyglitterbrained · 28/01/2016 11:14

EBearhug - this is why I'd love to see data about how women in tech are distributed across companies, rather than a simple figure. I bet it's clustered around the better companies.

EBearhug · 28/01/2016 12:58

Yes - also, my own dear employer is about average in terms of tech employers and percentage of women (about 24% - at least the last figures I knew.) However, this is partly balanced by departments like HR, which are around 50:50. If you look at the balance in the tech departments, it's far, far lower - something like 8%. Several departments have no women at all. Quite a few departments are also very white, and only have people from a pretty narrow age group. There's a limit to what they can do when there's not a lot of recruitment going on - but they can look at how they handle people who have extended absences, which doesn't cover maternity leave alone - we have someone who has been on sick leave for several months and a Swedish colleague had a year on paternity, and they'll also need easing back into work with support and training. There is also a lot of scope for making sure women get as likely a chance of being in the high-profile projects as men, things like that.

slightlyglitterbrained · 28/01/2016 13:42

Etsy, on the other hand have about 20% in tech, which is something they've written about as it required making an active choice to pursue various initiatives.

Obviously it's a hell of a lot quicker to change if you're in a small growing company.

slightlyglitterbrained · 28/01/2016 15:14

modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-myth-of-the-non-technical-startup-employee

A bit tangential but interesting

MrsFogi · 28/01/2016 23:22

I've enjoyed quite a number of the law firms' WN events - held in the evenings (so on my own dime) as they usually provide a good speaker followed by relaxed drinks and the opportunity to meet and connect with lots of interesting women. However other networks I've attended in the financial services/banking sector always seem to be hijacked by spending copious amounts of time trying to engage men and/or run CSR events. My experience has been that there is little or no whinging. Also any time spend at WN events/meetings is always on top of the day job as that still has to get done (much as if I go to the gym at lunch time that's an hour out of my day when I could have spent half of it working so will make up for it at another point during my day).
In my view WNs could provide great opportunities for women to do exactly that (ie network) given that in my experience the opportunities for women to network can be limited (e.g. (1) when I joined my company I didn't get invited for a lunch time drink with a team entirely composed of men and I have noticed the same is true for every woman who has joined since me whereas every man (whether more junior or senior) has immediately been invited to the pub but this team (2) some men get a great deal of heat from their wives/girlfriends for lunching/going out for a drink with a female colleague so it is easier not to bother and grab a drink with a male colleague).

OP posts:
GreenTomatoJam · 28/01/2016 23:31

that's good slightly.

I'm tech (and female) but work as part of a 3 person team when freelancing. Me (instigator and maintains the group): backend dev, BIL:Front end dev, and person I met through a fling (she's the one the fling flung me for): Programme/project manger/BA/general communications/organisation.

I know that without her, our team is stressed, she makes us better, admin is a much under-rated part of a team (and I wonder if that's because it's seen as a feminine role)

slightlyglitterbrained · 28/01/2016 23:37

Expecting women's networks to focus on running CSR events, women shouldn't be "allowed" to "spend their employers dime" on networking/personal development - oh gosh, I see a pattern beginning to form here.

Put it together with the number of female team members I've spent time trying to persuade that spending some time, even 15 minutes, on brushing up useful technical skills during their working day is just common sense, utterly key for maintaining skills in a fast moving industry, time that their male colleagues wouldn't hesitate to take... Angry Sad

I don't know how to break through that conditioning that your time is not your own.

slightlyglitterbrained · 28/01/2016 23:47

GreenTomatoJam - I was particularly struck by the comment that women got the title "office manager" while men got "operations manager" for the same role.

slugseatlettuce · 29/01/2016 07:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EBearhug · 29/01/2016 20:33

Oh, that's a shame, slugs - and thank you!

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