touchy feely guys

[lorelei9]

This is more of a rant than anything else, so I hope it’s all right to post it here.

I know my neighbours quite well – I live in a small block of flats. There is an elderly guy who moved in fairly recently. He’s the sort of person, if he bumps into you at the shops, he will say “how are you?” and squeeze your arm and want to chat for ages. I found it annoying from the start but not annoying enough to speak up. I also find him annoying generally. He seems to hang around at high traffic times for people going in and out. I commented once and he said “well I’m lonely”. I’ve also noticed he always compliments other female residents as well.

Over Christmas and New Year, he managed to do the whole greeting thing to give me a kiss on the cheek. I did find that annoying and after thinking it over I decided to say something. I see him around a lot and I just don’t want every occasion to be a “greet with a kiss” type, you know?

I encountered him and another (male) neighbour this morning. He immediately went to put his arm round me and the other neighbour said “oh stop putting your arm round everyone, it’s annoying and look, she’s trying to rush to the station”.

So the touchy feely neighbour said to me “what? You don’t mind do you?” and I said “yes, I do mind, we don’t know each other from a bar of a soap and you need to stop touching me. I’m off to work now”.

Touchy feely guy then made an awkward joke as I was walking away. The second neighbour made a face at me which I couldn’t interpret. If I see him again soon, I will ask him why he made that comment – it might have been a crazy banter joke but I saw it as a good opportunity to make my feelings known. But I suspect I am right – Mr touchy feely has been annoying more people than just me.

It’s depressing but at the ripe old age of 40, I realise that a) these men are like that and will touch anyone they can! And b) it won’t stop, will it? I used to think this would go away as I got older, but it just doesn’t. So I have to find a tactic or perhaps be more conscious so I say the first time “don’t touch me”. But honestly, I didn’t initially mind a neighbour greeting me with a squeeze of the arm or shoulder. More fool me?

I’m wondering how others handle it. What do you say and when do you say it? Do you politely say, the first time, “please don’t touch me?” I find that men like this “don’t” read obvious body language – I’m sure they can, but they don’t. So you try to shrink away and they don't register it.

any advice? Thanks.

OP, you might like to read The Gift of Fear about the niceness trap.

Armamai " also agree with not doing the listening work for other man"

I'm a bit lost now?

Unbelievably I haven't seen Pervy Neighbour this weekend.

what pervy things has he done?

Squeezed your arm? Gave you a Xmas kiss on the cheek at Xmas. He sounds really lonely. Ah well he will be dead soon y'know with him being elderly so you won't have to endure it much longer....

I actually thought you were going to talk about real touchy feely men. The ones that brush past and accidentlytouch an innapropriate place, or the ones that give you a shoulder massage when you didn't ask for one, or the ones that go in for a tight hug when you don't want one, or the ones that ask very personal questions about your love life.

Not some poor old fella that clearly likes you and is lonely and probally hangs about in high traffic times because he wouldn't see no fucker otherwise.

You all sound horrible

Cleensheets op isn't the only one who it bothers and this guy doesn't touch up the male tenants. It's a shame if he is lonely but perhaps if he learnt some respect for boundaries and personal space he would have more friends.

"He sounds really lonely. Ah well he will be dead soon y'know with him being elderly so you won't have to endure it much longer...."

Why is it the OP's problem that this man is lonely? And why does assuaging loneliness have to include some kind of physical contact with a stranger who dislikes it? Why can't he just say hello, pass the time of day, you know, like normal people who know how to interact with others? He's been told the OP doesn't like it and he doesn't actually give a shit. Why should the OP continue to be kind and understanding to someone who is contemptuous of her?

So many questions for that aggressive poster...

Report him for rape

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you're really not here in good faith, vioriteca. Bore off.

Cleansheets, why should his loneliness over-ride her comfort? Some of us (I include myself) find it incredibly difficult to assert our boundaries about being touched, because we've been taught all of our lives to put our feelings aside for other people, to go along with things we don't like because it's "not nice" to cause friction. It makes her uncomfortable, and he knows it - he just doesn't care because he thinks his feelings are more important. She was polite and firm in setting him straight on that, and why should she not be?

'the guy doesn't touch up the male tenants'. I think he does, doesn't he? It isn't only women.

Why is it the OP's problem that this man is lonely?

Words fail me. Fuck you, lonely old person! Is this what we have come to?

My apologies he does shake the male tenants' hands and punch them on the arms. It was this;

He then said to me "based on how he handled the other lady complaining to him, I'd say you'd be better asking your husband or boyfriend to speak to him". I was silent. He then said "oh are you single?" I said "yes but I'd have wanted to fight my own battle anyway" and he said "I'm sorry, I can see why, but based on his attitude generally I think he won't pay much attention if he hears it from you. Let me know if you want help."

That makes me think he does not respect women.

I don't think " fuck you lonely old person " is a fair summation of this story. As i said, I think the man in question would find himself less lonely if he respected boundaries and personal space. If he was a nice, lonely old man, op might pop round for a cup of tea. As he's a touchy-feely, lonely old man, op is understandably less inclined to spend time with him.

My thought too thedancingbear

From the elderly people I used to meet I would say a good portion of them touched me in a non sexual way while talking to me. Men and women. Should the women be called sexual preditors too?

If you don't like it, it's fine but to call this old guy a pervert - it's nasty.

I think op and her neighbour are very likeminded. Mean spirited.

Well you certainly told him op, maybe you and your neighbour should start a mob up with pitch forks and burning torches... That will teach him.

Well you certainly told him op, maybe you and your neighbour should start a mob up with pitch forks and burning torches... That will teach him.

That's now what I'm driving at here. It was more that specific comment that jumped out at me as beyond the pale. I'm not suggesting for a moment that invading people's person space in a non-sexual way is fine, because it isn't and can make people feel uncomfortable. But it seems that the isolation that many older people experience seems to me a much greater social ill. And that's the background against which this thread exists.

Sorry, first sentence above should say, 'that's not what I'm driving at'

It's totally disingenuous to say this is about elderly people being lonely. It's not. Most people whatever their age know how to act appropriately with others. If people find your touching inappropriate you need to stop doing it. That's cool that some posters like strangers squeezing their arms. Some don't. We might be victims of abuse, or problems with boundaries. Or we might just not like it.

Can dancingbear or cleensheets please tell me why this man's desire for human contact overrides that of the OP's need to not be touched?

Can dancingbear or cleensheets please tell me why this man's desire for human contact overrides that of the OP's need to not be touched?

Where has anyone said that?

Why is it the OP's problem that this man is lonely?

You stand by this then?

dancingbear read *cleensheets post. It totally minimises the OP's feelings and tells her that because the touching isn't 'inappropriate' it's absolutely fine. It calls the man (who has been asked to not touch women and still is) a poor fucker. I think that post makes it fairly clear about the attitude towards OP's feelings.

And no, it's not the OP's fault the man is lonely. And I agree with your inference that we should all help each other, look out for each other. But he is not helping himself. If he behaved appropriately I'm sure she'd be more likely to give him the time of day. I would do exactly the same in her shoes. If someone (young or old) was touching me when they'd been told to stop, no, I would not feel it's my responsibility to improve their lives in some way when they had shown they clearly don't respect me or my boundaries.

youth I did encounter sexual abuse when a child but I still wouldn't say this merits the elderly bloke be labelled a pervert.

He isn't singling out women. What a shame if this man gets known as the 'perv' just because op and her neighbour didn't like him. Thankfully not all the residents feel like this. So maybe it's just down to perception ?

Like I said it's fine if the op doesn't like him putting his hand on her or just generally being about where she lives.

But to call him a pervert ? No.

In fact I wonder if the op has any idea of the implications of being labelled a pervert when it's completly unfounded?

She didn't call him a pervert, she said his behaviour was pervy. She hasn't 'labelled him a pervert', please don't inflate this.

"So maybe it's just down to perception ?"

That's a good point. We're not there, so we only have the OP's perception to go on. On paper, you don't think it sounds too bad because - as you said earlier - you don't think it's inappropriate touching and there are other men who are worse. But to the OP it feels wrong. And that's enough of a reason to avoid/confront, right?

Lorelei, you have the perfect right to decide who touches you, when and where.

The man in question may be older, but I'm not sure that age excuses people from not respecting other people's boundaries, it certainly doesn't excuse other inappropriate behaviour. He may well also be lonely, which is sad, and is becoming a real social problem in the UK, however, again, I'm not sure that someone's loneliness negates someone else's bodily autonomy.

Unless the man in question is from a different, more tactile culture, I'm also a bit surprised that this is viewed as being just something that older people do because they're lonely. It certainly wasn't the norm in 50's Britain to kiss or put your arm around slight acquaintances. (I'm suggesting 50's because OP says she's 40 and describes the man as elderly)

I do agree though, that the epidemic of loneliness in Britain is bloody awful. But, while I agree with that, I'm not sure that being tactile with someone who obviously doesn't welcome it is the way to solve that. (It also doesn't make him pervy, merely inappropriate) It's not for the OP to stop his loneliness either, no one is obligated to take on another's woes, especially if they have behaved in a manner that makes you uncomfortable.

Two sides to this, but OP has the absolute right to not be touched by anyone if she doesn't want to be.

Two sides to this, but OP has the absolute right to not be touched by anyone if she doesn't want to be.

I agree completely with this. I was just faintly aghast at the ease with which some posters were happy to completely disregard one aspect of the cultural background here.

And if you call someone 'pervy', then you are saying that their behaviour is that of a pervert. that's what the word means. The distinction scarcely exists.

Unbelievably I haven't seen Pervy Neighbour this weekend

I also never said ^there are men that are worse' that insinuates I think this guy is on some pervert scale. I don't

Two sides to this, but OP has the absolute right to not be touched by anyone if she doesn't want to be

I don't believe I've said otherwise

*I actually thought you were going to talk about real touchy feely men. The ones that brush past and accidentlytouch an innapropriate place, or the ones that give you a shoulder massage when you didn't ask for one, or the ones that go in for a tight hug when you don't want one, or the ones that ask very personal questions about your love life.

Not some poor old fella that clearly likes you and is lonely and probally hangs about in high traffic times because he wouldn't see no fucker otherwise.*

if we shd go easy on this old guy's unwanted touching of women because of his"culture", this excuse cd also be applied to the sexual assaults on women in europe = def comes from a culture that says women who are out at night not covered from head to toe must be fair game ,right? Good work the man who spoke up and stopped him. The perpetrator knew damn well his touching was not welcomed -that was part of the game for him. Bet if he was doing it to men , he wd get some immediate consequences that stopped him and what cultural excuse wd you come up with then, eh? Guessing you wdn't have spoken up to stop him ?There's only 1 side to this=keep your hands to yourself-guess some adults have forgotten that childhood rule.