Stepping on transgender territory? Or just defying gender stereotypes?

[femfortheday]

This article on Jayden Smith in the independent just cropped up in my news feed. Is it satire? Because if I think my eyes might fall out from rolling too hard.
Man defies gender stereotypes and is accused of making life harder for transwomen? Because without the props of gender clothing, how will they express their womanhood? It's almost like gender is utter nonsense

Link: www.independent.co.uk/voices/will-smiths-son-as-the-new-face-of-louis-vuitton-womenswear-might-seem-progressive-but-its-a6797461.html

altho dear god I hope it is

Melinda Not particular to this thread but the "trousers are so much better /convenient /warmer" argument gets posted frequently as if it is an absolute given.

So far as clothes which he models not suiting the average woman, that applies to female models too.

Catwalk clothes are for catwalk models and a tiny proportion of others. The ideas get watered down and made wearable for the rest of us.

I really don't think it's satirical either.

It would make no sense to produce a satirical article designed to make the entire transgender argument appear ridiculous. The independent would be accused of discriminating against a marginalised group. So I can only assume that it's meant to be taken as a serious argument.

Either it's a parody or the writer is a twat. Hard to say, really.
As for the advert, well I would never buy anything from Louis Vuitton for various reasons. I just can't relate to anything in the advert.
As for Jayden Smith, will keep my mouth shut as he is still technically a child. However he will definitely be going on my list of 'celebrities you want to punch' once he is 18.

Men should wear skirts. All of them, all the time. Teamed with tights and nice boots.

So practical.

The idea that all women need womanly trousers is galling too. Some of us have no arse

Size 16-18 43" chest, size 12 31" waist, and size 8 32" hips does not make for an easy time buying clothes in women's OR men's shops. I don't know any woman who can find clothes that fit easily and I don't know any woman who has to wear a certain kind of clothes to look female. This whole article is just weird and I'm not sure what to make of any of it.

Related to this, I did read a transwoman (think it was on reddit) who was concerned that women might stop wearing makeup. Apparently it would make it impossible to 'pass' as they need makeup to hide their stubble to appear more feminine.
So I suppose this article would be feasible.They need women to present in a certain stereotypical way so that they can copy it.

realhuman I know a few women who find mens jeans a better fit. Womens jeans tend to be smaller on the waist.

Men should wear skirts. All of them, all the time. Teamed with tights and nice boots.

So practical.

Actually it makes sense. As a man who's worn a skirt occasionally I can tell you that there are certain 'parts' that would benefit from the natural air flow that a skirt offers.

WTAF?

No.

Just no.

That is so fucking wrong in so many ways that I don't know where to start.

As for Jayden Smith, will keep my mouth shut as he is still technically a child. However he will definitely be going on my list of 'celebrities you want to punch' once he is 18.

Why? If you miss out the "this makes it more difficult for mtf to pass" stuff what exactly has he done which is wrong?

Thanks noeffing - I do mostly wear men's jeans TBH and men's briefs too - only trouble is I'm a short-arse as well as a no-arse Men's jeans are also better-quality material, cheaper, and have actually ideals pockets and belt loops, which is always nice. I look like a woman no matter which part of the charity shop I buy my clothes from I'm certainly not going to change the way I dress so someone else feels more comfortable about the way I'm communicating my womanness.

*actually usable

I'm sure they are See. Many Polynesian and First Nations men would agree with you. And they look so much smarter than trousers after all.

If you Google Jaden Smith you will find lots of photos of him wearing skirts, tunics and leggings and dresses.

He wears them with flat shoes and boots and no obvious make-up or any attempt to look like a woman. He looks like a boy/young man ; not like a young man trying to be a woman.

Quite why that deserves a punch or such criticism isn't clear to me. Or is breaking stereotypes about what people can wear only worthwhile if that means women not wearing dresses?

you have just reminded me of David Bowie who I think i remember saying (re him wearing dresses)
'but they were men's dresses
off topic I know but I don't see why men can't wear dresses without appearing to want to seem 'feminine', just like I can wear trousers without appearing to want to seem 'masculine'

I don't think the punch is really about this issue.

What a fucking load of fucking shit article.

If that's serious it's the biggest pile of wank I've ever read

Someone introduce them to Eddie Izzard. And the Scots.

I wear gender neutral clothes, mostly. Jeans or joggers, vest top, cardi. Dark colours. It's just easy and comfy. I don't wear make up.

People should wear what the fuck they want. Sometimes I think trans women and their need to look like a stereotypical female, pretty, made up, heels, skirts, don't do women or feminism any favours. They're taking us back to the 50's.

How ridiculous.

I've worn clothes come from the "men's" section for nearly all my life. Am I stepping on transgender territory too?

If you had to be "officially trans" to wear the clothing typical of the opposite sex, surely life for transgender people would be in fact HARDER as there would be no experimentation allowed, you would have to "declare" yourself in order to wear the clothes you wanted.

Similar to this, something which pissed me off is my school had a "skirts for girls, trousers for boys" rules (very recently and to my knowledge still exists), but when a kid declared themselves transgender they were allowed to wear the opposite. I, as a "probably not trans" (that is my own definition of myself ) tomboy was not allowed trousers despite asking, neither were my friends who wanted to be warmer when it snowed.
I'm absolutely not saying the kid should have had to suck it up like we did, but everyone should be able to wear what they want. Surely if they'd been able to wear what they wanted for the 3 years before they "came out" they would have felt much happier in themselves? Last time I wore a dress I ended up spending the day nearly in tears, that's how awful I felt so it's not just trans people.

Likewise I saw a buzzfeed article celebrating that puerto rico now allowed girls and boys to choose skirt or shorts as "a victory for trans people". Er, how about a victory for everyone who didn't want to stick to what they were "supposed" to do?

According to that article it is my duty to reproduce (tick - done that), and to communicate your gender in order to facilitate that (it is SEX not gender the, if reproduction is the aim)

I no longer wish to reproduce, so from now on will be wearing tweed trouser suits or a tux.

So what is the punch for? Jayden Smith didn't write this silly article. What terrible things has he done?

As for Bowie - his views on sexual politics can I think be safely disregarded given what happened with Lori Maddox.

I don't see why men can't wear dresses

A lot of it is fear of confrontation with homophobes and bigots etc.

Their is still a lot of violence and overt homophobia (even though a lot aren't homosexual) towards transvestites and transgendered people. It's unfortunate but it is still there. Like Roosh? (Whatever his dickhead name was?) He posted a picture of Reggie Yates in lipstick etc and questioned his sexuality.

But that is slightly Off topic.