Will true equality ever be achieved?

[bridie69]

By which I mean women are paid the same as men there are the same expectations on men and women re childcare, men are as expected as women to control their fertility, 50% of Parliament/Cabinet/G8 leaders women, women action heroes in media, no more unachievable body shapes in magazines, same prices for MOTs, etc etc. When I look at DD aged 21 I am horrified that many things have actually gone backwards for women. So, can we have hope that things will change anytime soon?

Hmmmm - cailin, can't agree with all that. Young women are actually out earning and better qualified than young men these days. Agreed that changes after they have children but it's not the case that they're forced into being the primary carer because they get paid less for being female.

It wont change much while we still have a patriarchal capitalist system. In addition with women who have 'made it' parroting how women need to man up etc.

Childcare needs to be sorted out to be honest, women need to be less guilted by their peers and elders that they are the defacto providers of the kids, that say having a SAHD is normal. Also that sharing the childs responsibilities is expected.

Men need to be getting involved more but everyone needs to persevere, not just give up and push them out as being another crap dad. The truly crap dads will fall to the bottom and its up to you whether you wan to be with them.

Expectations of parents have risen because the skills a person needs to acquire to be employable as an adult have increased, and the burden of teaching even basic skills has shifted from the school to the home.

Hence a rising burden on primary carers and a collapse of social mobility.

Fifty years ago my mother taught children to read. A class teacher now will expect most of the class to have been taught at home.

Seventy years ago my grandmother left school at sixteen and went into a job that would now require a degree to obtain.

If mothers stop doing all the extra stuff involved in parenting beyond letting a child freeze or starve to death, the people who pick up the pieces are usually primary school staff and pastoral staff in secondary school, generally other women.

There's a huge range of parenting between quibbling over party bows and social services knocking on the door. I would love to drop doing parenting 'my way' but I won't do, because it would be hugely damaging to my kids' lives.

Vintage, I think you are trivialising what women do.

Sorry have been busy being rudely reminded of the issues I as a woman face just trying to be out and about in the real world. See AIBU thread on repulsive behaviour. The debate so far here has been very enlightening. I do think men will not change until they see the benefits of doing so for them as well as for women. Eg aged 60 actually knowing and being loved by your adult children because you spent time with them growing up. And when women look at a man's ability as a a parent and as a competent runner of a house hold as well as say their earning potential or height when deciding who to have children with, well then you will see things change. It has taken women 100 years to go from effectively non people to second class but flourishing citizens in the western developed world ( they are still non people in many developing countries and the Middle East) . Maybe it is my recent bad experience but I am just very worried what will happen when men realise their patriarchal power is ebbing away fast and will never return. There is already so much hatred and anger towards women, all we can do is bring our sons up to respect women.

Maybe it is my recent bad experience but I am just very worried what will happen when men realise their patriarchal power is ebbing away fast and will never return.

Already happening bridle69: see Reggie Yates thread. The programme was bristling with the type of men who resent losing their power.