French 'Terrorist' - "he's not my boyfriend"

[AbeSaidYes]

I wondered how other people were feeling about Hasna Aitboulahcen, the woman who was wearing a suicide vest in the recent Paris Siege?

I have just seen that she had shouted 'he's not my boyfriend' in response to the security forces and also I have read that she called 'help me' before the bomb went off.

It seems to me that there is every chance she was an unwilling victim of this atrocity - does anyone else feel the same? it just doesn't sit right with me.

Isn't that video absolutely typical of most friends of terrorists though? Loads of terrorists have had very ordinary childhoods, normal friends, loving spouses etc. It's the job of radicalisation to turn them to extreme behaviour.

Every upsetting terror story has a weeping mother behind it, wondering how on earth her loving son or daughter could have been brainwashed into such violence.

Abe They were aware of her due to a drugs operation, her phone was tapped and the monitoring was due to terrorism links, although it is not yet officially confirmed whether the tapping was in place immediately before the attacks last Friday, or if it ceased and then resumed.

Exactly Morris The mother of another terrorist has told the press she thinks her son blew himself up because of 'stress.'
OP, you can try to justify this persons action for whatever reason to tie in with whatever agenda it is you want to preach but in my mind, these people, whatever their sex, are psychotic maniacs with a bullshit interpretation of a peaceful and loving religion.

So we are supposed to believe she was coerced.
Nyes.

Nothing to do with psychosis. Every thing to do with islam.

"OP, you can try to justify this persons action for whatever reason to tie in with whatever agenda it is you want to preach"

I would be happy for you to point out where I am trying to justify anything or where I am trying to preach a particular agenda.

That is in no way my intention.

My view OP is that you are trying to minimise a terrorists actions because of her sex. Is that clear enough for you?

"I am not sure - but confused about why you think that is what I am saying."

I don't think you are but it could be seen as you are saying a women could never do this without being groomed/ forced by a man. If we are all people then women are just as capable as men of doing these horrendous things.

She may well have been coerced into wearing a bomb but then I don't think it's a unique thing for women to be made to wear them. Plenty of men get groomed by radical people into doing stuff like this.

"I am not sure - but confused about why you think that is what I am saying."

Because I read it as questioning the free agency of only one of the perpetrators and apparently basing it on her sex.

What motivates people to be suicide bombers, and what grooming/brainwashing process leads them to it is a valid, but somewhat different, question.

Agree wholeheartedly with pirate

I am not in any way saying that women are not and can never be capable of this behaviour, that's a ridiculous suggestion.

I am not basing it on her sex, I am basing it on her words.

Fair enough that her words can't be trusted, and fair enough that by posting it here I raised the issue of her gender. However - I clearly was /am concerned about the words she used prior to the Bomb being detonated.

and also the words of her friend who may well be one of those people who came out of the woodwork to talk glowingly about her after her death but having listened to what she said I felt she was making genuine observations about her friend's past and recent behaviour and the kind of person she was.

That's a mealy mouthed back pedal if ever I saw one. What's your take on this op, and why did you post it in feminism?

Also agree with pirate

"That's a mealy mouthed back pedal if ever I saw one"

seriously?

How am I back pedaling? I asked a question and people have commented so I have taken those opinions on board, read a bit, explained that I am not posting to deliberately cause offence and so on and your response is to call me a mealy mouthed?

Give me a break. I have been here long enough to know what kind of responses are often given on mumsnet but there's no need to be abusive to me for asking questions.

And why did I post it in feminism? because I thought there may be other feminists like me who are troubled by a someone who may have been in a position that she didn't want to be, who is being described in certain ways by the press which may not be appropriate given some of the final things she said.

I didn't do it to inflame some kind of feminist back-lash and it may have been the wrong place to do so. I may be wrong to have been concerned about it on a feminist level. Sorry about that - I am not a mouth piece fro feminism. I do not claim to understand all of feminist theory, I am still learning.

I am taking on board all that people have said - getting my head around it and learning stuff about other people's perspectives.

I am sorry for any offence caused but it really wasn't intentional, just clumsily expressed in, it turns out, the wrong place.

I didn't want to post in AIBU, I wanted a proper conversation about it.

Don't worry too much OP. You are trying understand things beyond the normal constraints of conventional thinking and there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes however, it's better to be certain of the facts because of the seriousness of the subject matter. Who knows why this women did what she did. We may never know, and perhaps it doesn't actually matter because the focus should be on the victims rather than the perpetrator.

...and my take on it is that anyone (male or female) could find themselves in a position where they are forced into a situation they don't want to be in, or where a situation they thought was one thing could turn into something else.

I think that generally women have been and are more likely to be manipulated into situations that they would rather not be in. That it would be naive to ignore that these things do and have happened to women over decades if not centuries. I don't know if it was the case here, I really don't. I was just taken aback by the words that it was reported she said and maybe I was wrong not to put them into context or do more research before posting my question.

I have to say that I did not know that one of the Bataclan terrorists was suspected to be a woman, this is new info to me.

I am surprised by the tone of the responses to be honest.

"and perhaps it doesn't actually matter because the focus should be on the victims rather than the perpetrator"

but this was part of my original thought - what do we know? Is she also a victim? Are other terrorists also victims sometimes.

When I think about young British Muslims who have left the country against their parents wishes (particularly girls and women) to join ISIS/IS/ISIL I tend to think of them as victims too because i think there is a bigger picture to just 'bad guys and good guys'.

Any of them might have been in a place they did not want to be.

Her boyfriend statement could have been an attestation to living a chaste life, and the request for help could have been to the person next to her at the time to assist her in setting off the detonation.

Her background - and that of all the perpetrators - will be thoroughly investigated by the relevant authorities, and one hopes that it will shed some light on the process of radicalisation, and in turn that might assist the Prevent programme thus keeping people of both sexes away from extremism.

He wasn't her boyfriend.

She referred to him as her cousin - but likely meaning a close friend, rather than a blood relation, although that isn't yet clear.

There's no suggestion that she had any feelings for him, or was manipulated by him at all - the evidence seems to suggest that he was the mastermind, but she was a close friend and therefore they likely shared similar views.

I'm sorry to repeat myself but I think it's really important to get rid of the misinformation. There is no suggestion of a relationship at this point.

I don't think your post is at all offensive OP.

The reports about this woman haven't sat right with me either. Family and friends have reported her as enjoying a very western lifestyle, and only wearing a headscarf for the past month. Now, I'm not an expert, but I think the leap from a western lifestyle to an extremist would take longer than a month of brainwashing.

I do find it concerning that she was calling out for help. Maybe I'm not being cynical enough but I believe most extremists are so sure of their views and actions that they are pretty fearless. Calling out for help doesn't sit right with me.