Are women conditioned to think they always have to be "nice"?

[Cerseirys]

This thought has occurred to me in the past, but last week a friend shared an article on asylum seekers on Facebook and a friend of hers made some ill-informed prejudiced comment on it. I asked my friend who this woman was and she said a friend from work who was nice really but "would vote for Bush or Trump"!

My friend then asked me if I thought she'd been "respectful" in her reply to this woman. And that got me thinking - when someone makes a blatantly bigoted statement why should we be respectful? Why can't we just challenge them and tell them why we disagree with them, or even get angry? Why are women expected to always "be nice"?

Coincidentally DD confided in me this morning that a boy at school had asked to see her knickers, she didn't want to but didn't want to say no in case people didn't want to be her friend. So I am going for the bolshy option a bit more now. Have seen the teacher, asked for it to be dealt with and made sure DD knows I am taking her side, also had the conversation about it doing anything you're not comfortable with and friends not asking you to. She's 5, I didn't think it would come so soon .

I noticed in my last long-term job that if I wasn't being 'nice' I was called 'hormonal' (frequently by women as well as men). It was a mechanism to stop pesky women challenging the top figures (all male) who dispensed the largesse and patronage upon which they had all come to lazily rely.

I've definitely noticed women being criticised more for lack of niceness, where men can be pretty fucking abrasive before they get pulled up on it. I tend to respond "yes, and that's precisely why I hired her, to [display leadership/take responsibility/whatever phrase we've been using recently to denote "valuable person who gets shit done"].

And EElisaveta - 5 is so little.

I think it is a product of environment but also social and cultural attitudes as a black woman I can speak my mind I don't know about being 'nice' per ce but as a Christian woman you can be expected to have a forgiving and understanding attitude but i think that is expected from men too...sometimes societal norms need to be challenged...I dare anyone to say I'm 'hormonal' where I work

I have lived in a arab country and a women there would think nothing of pulling someone up if they say jumped the queue there would not be the polite excuse me I think you may have not realised there is a queue here they would be more upfront but the conditioning to keep women oppressed is certainly there

Wait? You've lived in the Middle East and someone actually knew how to form a que?!? (I say as someone who has lived in Qatar and the UAE for 10 years).

True only Brits form a proper queue

The Japanese are quite good too. ;)

I think there is the cultural niceness that is probably expected of men and women alike - politeness, being neighbourly etc and the particulars of this vary as to the culture, which differs between countries but also in big cites vs small villages.

But I do gendered expectations of niceness as well. I find it hard to explain but I often find that if a man and I behave in the exact same way, there are different results. This happens at work and socially. Say if someone says something a bit silly, I often see a man be pretty abrupt about it and basically say 'that's bollocks' and the person being corrected and the people around just think the man knows his stuff. However, if I was to do the same thing I would be seen as being mean so have to sugarcoat correcting someone if I don't want to be seen as a horrible person.

I'm also nice to people if I think there is a chance I'm in danger. In the past I have politely but firmly asked men who are pestering me late at night to leave me alone and it has only ever ended in harassment and physical violence that I have had to run away from. I'm sure some men also experience this but just talking to the men I know they associate that experience with school bullies and haven't experienced it since adulthood.