Boys only club at DD's school

[Scarzo]

It was announced in the newsletter that a program has been started up at our school for some yr 3 and 4 boys to "increase resilience and problem solving skills".

This is apparently because of the "differences between how boys learn" and "interact with peers". Also that boys are "cognitively 12 months behind girls when starting school"

They will be repairing second hand bikes and making models.

So while it's great that they're trying to help students that might be struggling with the structure of a typical classroom set up, I think it's really innapropriate that the opportunity is only open to boys.

Would this bother any of you? No other parents that I've spoken to seem concerned, so maybe I'm over thinking it.

I want to complain to the school, but am worried I wont get my point across succinctly.

Any advice on wording a pithy letter would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

I'm not saying that the school is right or wrong- but if they have identified a specific issue with boys should they address it openly like this?. I think I think they should-resources are so limited they need to be targeted.

Agree vestal, trouble is girls with communication difficulties don't always disrupt the class. My worry would be there would be some girls I expect who would benefit from this and are not getting the help.

If they look closely, it won't be a problem with just boys, mainly it will I grant you, but closing off opportunities due to your sex is just wrong.

Trouble is with targeted groups, they are using two criteria, one boys one impaired social skills and you have to fit both to go. It will fish out the majority of those with poor social skills...but pity the girl who has poor social skills who is denied due to her sex.

Effectively that girl Could underachieve in life due to this even though she is good at the academic side....shouldn't schools be preparing children for life not just academic league tables?

I'm not sure that girls with social difficulties would be best helped my a targeted activity that would be dominated by boys. It seems like the sort of thing where separate strategies might serve everyone, and certainly the girls, best. If they are ignoring the girls with these difficulties then that's bad, but we don't know that that's the case. If there are fewer girls who tend to have these problems they might tackle those girls individually.

I know what you mean boom, they might not have any girls that fit into that category.

It's difficult to tackle social skills problems individually though. You do need a group to work with. It's not about fixing a bike or making models. It will be about turn taking in conversation, letting others share their ideas, learning to recognise when you are annoying people. Learning to be quiet when it's someone else's turn.

My DD was allowed to choose another girl to come with her, which I though was lovely.

I agree that the girls are probably being overlooked because they are not as disruptive. From my (limited) experience when boys have poor social skills, they seem to display more aggressive behaviour Whereas girls seem to find it easier to mask their lack of social skills and they often just come across as being shy. This is supposedly one of the reasons why it's harder for a girl to be diagnosed with asd then boys. If the professionals find it hard to pick out girls with social skill impairment then I imagine teachers would find it very tricky.

Well, speaking from personal experience, there is a subset of boys who struggle socially but mask well. They get ignored too. Don't know how big a subset they represent compared to girls, but they're there. However hanging round in ICT or spending break times arranging and rearranging your football cards is considered normal for boys so I guess they're isolated in a socially acceptible way even if they're not very hapy.

Surely the kids that are likely to disrupt the learning and lives of others need to be a priority, pragmatically speaking?

Yes they are a priority but I would hope within a school there'd be enough resource to reach out to the socially isolated and unhappy but quiet kids too - rather than wait for self harm/mental health problems/suicidal thoughts to kick in.

I don't have any problem with the club in the OP btw - just hope that there are other things in place for different types of vulnerable child.

I don't think it's any different from my son being denied access to a group to help with anxiety and self confidence at High school since he was a boy. The group was originally for anyone but all the DC initially allocated to it were girls and they felt more comfortable with it just being for girls so he gets no help or support at all.

It's shit, but it works both ways ime.

They also have to endure lecture after lecture about boys achieving less in exams so that they don't feck up the schools academic record. DS2 gets that even more so since his year are 2 thirds boys - the stats are going to nosedive now since they don't have the girls to hold up the pass rates.

Shit for all involved.

@BertrandRussell: Pragmatically speaking, they should be separated from the rest of the class so that the other ones can learn in peace. That should be the first priority.
They should not just be rewarded with nice clubs where they can do fun things, which might, or might not, cause them to be less disruptive. Repairing bikes and building models is a very indirect approach.

If you give disruptive kids fun things that the others don't get, then that's unfair, and kids notice that. It might be an incentive to display more disruptive behaviour.

So, if you think such measures are needed, then you should make sure to offer fun things to do for the kids who behave themselves, too.

Doubly so if you sex-segregate the children.

Barbarian - didn't see your post before mine but yes, absolutely. Boys weren't allocated to the club because hanging about in the computer room by themselves is fine.

I am sure they could have gone into every class and found at least 2 boys who would have benefitted from the same group as the girls, but apparently there is no demand....

I wouldn't see itas being rewarded with a nice club Vestal- I would see it as a pragmatic way of trying to teach the skills necessary for day to day life. I suppose it depends on whether you believe all kids can behave well/socialise well/interact positively if they want to. My experience (pretty limited admittedly) with primary school children is that that is rarely the case. Certainly at my childrens' school there is a huge overlap bw behavioural issues and disability (learning or otherwise) and a pretty big one bw behavioural problems and personal trauma.

Well, I suppose if you think that primary school kids are difficult and disruptive because they are bad- then that's the approach to take. Isolation and punishment until all by themselves they change their ways. If you think, however, that they are usually difficult and disruptive because of circumstances beyond their control then it's amazing what a bit of one to one positive attention can do.

@BarbarianMum: I know someone who works in a school for the kind of children who are really not able to behave. Teaching them how to repair bikes does not help. Giving them Ritalin helps.

And yes, actually I do think the children that remain in normal schools are full well able to behave themselves. In my experience, children who disrupted classes did so by throing little paper balls at me, so I may be a bit prejudiced ... but I do think they were full well able to not do that. They may have been bored, but so was I. Every child can just read a book under the table. (Or play with a smartphone, nowadays)

Two of my DD's are part of a 'Minecraft gang' which comprises a year 5 boy, a year 4 boy, two year 4 girls and a year 2 girl....not a sniff of division of the sexes. The year 4 boy apparently gets some teasing because he spends time with girls, but he's sensible enough to make his own choices.

"actually I do think the children that remain in normal schools are full well able to behave themselves"

Vestal, there is a very high threshold - at least where I work - for children to be admitted to Special School on the grounds of emotional / behavioural difficulties, because there are so few places available in such schools. So it is quite possible to have a statement, significant medication, and full-time TA support, for behavioural difficulties and still be nowhere near the level which would prompt special school admission.

As well as those children with statements, and those who have 'known and to some extent predictable' behavioural issues who are not quite statementable, there are also a group of children who, through home circumstances, through in-school or out of school bullying, through stressful changes in personal circumstances (family breakdown, domestic violence, imprisonment of a family member, homelessness, bereavement... and that's just my personal experience of a single class in a village school), can suddenly display difficult-to-manage out of control behaviour.

So no, even in the naicest of nice primaries, not all children are always able to behave themselves.

Ritalin, as I understand it, is for children with ADHD - and then only sometimes, and in conjunction with behavioural management techniques. What are suggesting for the rest? Isolation and prozac? I can't help feeling that positive adult and peer interaction (not in the classroom when misbehaving when it would be seen as a reward) and practising social skills (concentrating, turn taking, team working, following instructions) could be beneficial. Sometimes, but not necessarily, in single sex groups.

Oh, and as for reading under the desk - my (limited) experience with badly behaved primary children was doing remedial reading. Being unable to read and write to the appropriate level was a huge contributory factor in their poor classroom behaviour. They couldn't participate in a lot of the lesson content and they had terrible self-esteem for not having grasped a skill that the majority of the other children found came naturally.

Exactly, Barbarian. Positive interactions with an adult - especially a male adult / role model - can also be really valuable to such boys, and is something often missing from hard-to-engage boys in school. Non screen, long-term-reward activities are also beneficial in terms of developing the ability to 'delay gratification'.

I would also point out that we don't KNOW that hard-to-engage girls haven't got a similar small group targeted at them - we only know that it hasn't been announced with such a fanfare in the newsletter.

"And yes, actually I do think the children that remain in normal schools are full well able to behave themselves. "

Gosh. Can I ask when you had anything to do with a state primary school? I only say state, by the way, to indicate non selective.