DD says she no longer labels herself a feminist

[AradiasDaemon]

She is 14 and has told me tonight that she no longer labels herself a feminist. I'm gutted, while also understanding how she has reached that point. She is well read, passionate and clued up on feminism and I think it is largely to do with her current friend group. She said that one of the lads she hangs around with and likes a lot said that she 'lost points' for being a feminist. I just tried to talk to her about it but I'm tired and it really fucked me off so it didn't go well, so she has stomped off upstairs and I'm sitting raging.

Not at her, at the fucking world. At the patriarchy, at bastard misogynists that have made her feel like feminism is a dirty word. They win, again. I could actually cry that it is so hard to be a feminist in this world. She used the words 'feminazi' and 'man haters'. Wtaf? Most of her friends have a similar reluctance to call themselves feminists.

This is the girl who was tweeting for the TYFA! Help me please, I know I'm overreacting but have no-one else to rant to about this. Fuck's sake.

Well ... if she feels using the label of "feminist" is like painting a target on her back, then I'd actually agree with her.
I don't walk around telling people that I'm a feminist either. Men don't need to know, if they are not clever enough to figure it out themselves. That way, it is easier for me to find out whether they are antifeminists. (Yes, I actually believe they will pretend to not be antifeminists to not lose points with me. I am arrogant like that.)

Encourage her to go undercover until she feels safe to be open about her beliefs. Being a teenager is hard, I can understand she doesn't want to be bullied.

It is worrying that she values the opinion of that asshat who told her she "lost points", though.

To clarify, I think you don't have to worry as long as she doesn't swallow the antifeminist bullshit she's fed, but only tries to protect herself. If she used "man-hater" and "feminazi" (most ridiculous word combination ever, the nazis used women as incubators for new soldiers) in a context that implies she believes that nonsense, then that's ... very sad.

I LOVE the 'undercover' idea thanks for that Vestal! I just said goodnight and gave her a kiss and told her it's ok to be an undercover feminist. She thought that was brilliant.

No, she doesn't believe the 'misandry' bollocks, thankfully. She was just kicking back at me I think there. I've explained that it's not her I was upset with, or disappointed in. Just that I wish she wasn't in that position in the first place.

Great!

I think that's the first time I actually managed to help solve someone's problem on an internet thread.

Well, she isn't a feminist is she? She thinks a boy's comments are worth listening to more then her being equal to him.

Perhaps suggest she gives up school to stay home and clean the house for you, after all there is no point her getting an education.

Or that she does the undercover thing vestal mentions, because really she is a feminist, she just doesn't wnt the label society puts on feminists.

I'm too old OP to advise as the world is a different place now from when I was young.

The thing that saddens me is that with women more independent, autonomous and self-reliant than ever (apparently) these days, girls' attitudes to boys appears to be going backwards.

Honestly, as a feminist at school among lots of other blossoming feminists, when encountering that attitude from some immature adolescent youth our response was just to shrug and tell them to F-off. We couldn't have cared less. Plenty of other fish in the sea with more grown-up attitudes was our view.

So, why now to many girls feel they have to play the obedient puppy around boys? It is so counter intuitive. Yes, I know pressures change throughout the generations but, honestly, the pressure on my generation to be passive, submissive, "naive" young ladies was way way stronger.

So what is going on? I do blame the internet and the poisonous attitudes it spreads to a great degree and other rubbish like "celeb" media etc.
It makes me so

Exactly, so you (we) kicked against it. These things (whether identifying as a teen feminist is "OK" or not) go in cycles. OP's dd has the right stuff in her head - she still needs time to work out exactly what she believes, the image of "self" she wants to project, and what her priorities (wrt feminism and other things) are.

Younger teens care what other teens think - it's part of the maturation process, not the end of it. Really doubt she's going to conclude at the end of it all that the way forward is to be a handmaiden to men.

I agree BarbarianMum with what you say. The bit that makes me sad is that girls seem (I put it no stronger than that) to care much more now about sucking up to boys than my generation ever did (teens in the late 50s/early 60s). That's what so counter intuitive.

Maybe your daughter OP needs to go back to the dictionary definition of feminist to really see what it means and feel better about it.

I've just finished reading Emmeline Pankhurst's own account of the struggle for the vote "My Own Story" (one of my grans was a suffragette). When I put that together with what my generation struggled for in the 60s/70s - equal pay, opening up of new careers, the ability to take out loans/mortgages without a male guarantor etc., then to me, to deny being a feminist would be a huge betrayal of so many brave women who were responsible for the opportunities OP's daughter has today.

I suppose, in a way, the fact that she can take for granted these things is the very thing that gives her freedom to deny the label. Freedoms can be lost so easily though if we are not careful.

Sorry, I'm pretty ancient and, as I say, a bit about it.

I'm sure she will regain her courage as she gets older if you continue to have a dialogue with her and support her.

I'd tread very lightly on this. My mum is a radical feminist who drove us all to tears with her ranting polemics. Kids learn to say the right things to their audience, so your DD knows better than to agree with that hot guy but you will never 'win' that one.

If you get at all heavy about it she'll just go 'oh yes mum you're so right, yup, yup' the way I always did just to get out of the room.

The good news is she's clearly bright and will be fine in the long term. Teenagers say any old shite, try not to over react.

Maybe this blog post is interesting to you: glosswatch.com/2015/01/24/choosing-between-misogyny-and-feminism-a-practical-guide/

(The blogger basically says that it is way easier to be misogynist than feminist, because society will applaud the former but hate you for the latter.)

She said that one of the lads she hangs around with and likes a lot said that she 'lost points' for being a feminist.

The right answer might have been, "Mmmm... you're not doing too well, either."

To be perfectly honest, I think being misogynist and being misandrist are as bad as each other.

Killing and raping women and upholding a system which enables other men to kill and rape women is as bad as disliking men and not wanting to have anything to do with them?

You should see a doctor religious or ethical authority with this condition. I don't think it is healthy.

Besides, work on your reading comprehension, the word was feminism not misandry.

I would say that your dd is probably just trying to differentiate herself from you.