What is going on with the Feminist Library in London?

[ArcheryAnnie]

This isn't a rhetorical question. I am seeing on twitter that loads of sensible gender-crit women and transwomen have been banned and blocked from the FB message boards, including pre-emptive bans, and that posts on such things as, er, the menopause have been deleted as transphobic.

The Feminist Library was set up by second-wavers decades ago, and I thought it was still run by second-wavers. What's going on?

(I'm not on FB so don't know if I am pre-emptively banned or not.)

Hovis Valid questions. All I can come up with is that the language used is considered wrong. They're not female bodies because not everyone who identifies as a woman has a female body. But sex is a spectrum and anyway shuddup cis scum you're killing transwomen.

I think feminism can and should interact with trans issues, but it shouldn't centre them and shouldn't do all the work for them. The impact on women gets serious far too quickly. But trans people wanting to set up a Trans Library would get my support, frinstance. Providing they didn't expect women to do it for them.

Offload all you like, it's one of the very few and very precious spaces you can do so!

Or alternatively they are female bodies, even if they have a penis, because they are female ergo they have by definition a female body.

(Whatever we say, we'll get it wrong, so.)

It ends up meaning that penises become more female than vaginas. Since we "Vaginas" can't call our genitals female, only penises can be called female.

And no one sees anything wrong with that...

Maybe we should just call men women and women men. Let them have a go. See how they like it

I’m an afab trans person, so I don’t experience transmisogyny

What does that sentence even mean?

If it's of any comfort I almost certainly fit the description of cis woman, and it doesn't really bother me, but that article mystified and irritated me too.

Ah i'm still fluent!! clears throat Transmisogyny is the word used for abuse towards trans women, afab means "assigned female at birth" or, my doc saw I had a vag when I was born. so I'm guessing this person is trying to say they don't experience what a trans woman faces. In really complex language which most of the world doesn't understand or use.

I'd agree - I don't know what its like to be a trans woman. Equally, a trans woman does not face what non-trans women face from birth until death but this fact is denied and ignored.

Women may have to endure crippling patriarchy, but it's just as bad for trans women because they had to join in on the leering and jeering and getting better schooling and snapping of bra straps and harassment, being told to join in with the sexism when deep down that's how they wanted to be treated! (Someone actually similar words.)

I also remember someone saying "dfabs wanna be oppressed so bad"

Right...

I’m an afab trans person, so I don’t experience transmisogyny

Even with your definitions that still doesn't make sense to me Fauch!

Transmisogyny is only used for trans women, so a male who "identifies" as a woman.

And in any case the party line is the very second a female "identifies" as a man they experience all the glories of patriarchy, never experience any misogyny. It's all over. Even if they've come out to zero people, they now have "privilege" over all women and trans women and enjoy the treats of patriarchy and life is just peachy, no struggles.

Now it's been a while since I watched Boys Don't Cry but uh...

We want to be oppressed? Is that what that means?

I'm afraid anyone who says that what is being done to women and girls all over the world is because they like it, is a deeply vile person. Or maybe just incredibly stupid, or with zero idea about the world and what goes on. Maybe all 3.

And this is where the question comes up again, about how many of these ideas and attitudes are just bog standard old school misogyny.

I've only managed to find a limited amount of stuff by trans men. I read one blood where he talked about experiencing sexism, street harassment, boys doing stuff at school same as anyone else and was a gender critical feminist basically.

The idea that trans men and boys are immediately accepted into all make circles no questions asked is laughable. Is this part of the idea that actually it's women who are the most violent group in society?

Blood = blog
Make = male
Probably more too

I was just reading about the breast feeding case it's awful rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/02/11/supreme-court-didnt-reject-breastfeeding-rights-lawsuit-men-can-lactate/

“Ames has not presented sufficient evidence that lactation is a medical condition related to pregnancy,” the lower court wrote.

Jesus Christ - how on earth could anyone make that argument or judgement with a straight face!

Is this the case wombofonesown mentioned? Thanks for linking. That women's treatment by her employers nd the court was shocking.

Jeez Whirlpool that poor woman. Yep, we'll just keep throwing women under the bus.

I wrote a long post earlier but my phone ate it!

Thing is a lot of laws and stuff take it for granted that there were such things and men and women, and women got pregnant and so forth.

The consequence of saying that anything that applies to women also applies to men, removes the possibility of addressing any form of sex based discrimination.

The idea that a woman should have to prove something that has been accepted in mammals since the dawn of time and is one of the core ways of identifying a mammal - that the females lactate to feed their young - is just utterly bizarre. Women have to prove that lactation is linked to pregnancy, birth, and babies? It's all bonkers. But the ramifications (as we see in that example) are real.

Um, I've posted on exercise and nutrition threads here that I'm post-meno. I described my symptoms and what helped me.
They are all imaginary of course, if I have been written out of the world and no longer exist as a woman.
Was I transphobic to post about my menopause unmentionable word in an attempt to help others going through this imaginary experience ?
< totally baffled >

The Feminist Library is such an important part of our history.
I feel all our safe spaces have Space Invaders and feminism is being rewritten to be "menism."
I hope there are more capable women here who can suggest how to stop this revisionism.

I read about a case in the USA where a woman sued because she was stopped from bfing somewhere. The judge ruled it was not discriminatory because they would have stopped a bfing man too.

I suppose if there are no women then there is no need for women's rights or protections under the law.
So, a great step for mankind.

Ah, seen your link; that must be the case I was EMed
I had hoped my friend was wrong

Just seen this on Twitter: xenogender

What possible use is any of this??

Xenogender (coined by Baaphomett in 2014,[1] from xeno alien + "gender") is a nonbinary gender identity "that cannot be contained by human understandings of gender; more concerned with crafting other methods of gender categorization and hierarchy such as those relating to animals, plants

I gave up after that. I grew up on a farm. Farm animals are divided into male and female animals. It's pretty important to be able to tell which bovine animals produce milk and which produce semen.

I have no idea what other "methods of gender categorization and hierarchy" can possibly exist in relation to animals.

The point made (by Becca Reilly-Cooper) on Twitter is that gender has now come to mean personality, or aspect thereof. So...what? What is the purpose of it all? There are 7 billion or so genders now, right? It's lost all meaning and meaningful applications.

But you really should read some of these gender designations. They're hilarious interesting!

Re breastfeeding the Scottish government may have to re-write section 4.

www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2005/1/contents

Gender, as it is now, is clearly bunk. All that matters is biology, for the rest of it, do what you will.

But that's not going to float with some people.