so simple even a man can do it.....

[chelle792]

That is a direct quote from an advert on telly. I wish I knew which one it was but I was in the kitchen at the time. I'm pretty sure it was on about cooking sausages or something.

But seriously, what the hell? Surely that highlights what is wrong with society!

The Birdseye Pasta ad came on yesterday, where the woman is cooking and her boyfriend phoned her and Dd (10) asked yesterday why it's often the woman cooking or cleaning in the ads, and the ones that do show men doing are patronising.

She also said, if cooking is seen as the woman's job, then how come so many professional chefs are male?

The gtech air ram ad grates on her a lot, the main ad initially has the woman shown struggling with a big clunky thing and then there's the man, vacuuming easily with his gtech air ram. She thinks it's like telling ladies "you're doing it wrong"

Then there's the other air ram ad where women are on a stage doing some sychronized dance with the air ram, think the ad was meant to show how light the vacuum is but dd said they could have demonstrated that by having the woman do exactly the same as the man in the other ad, rather than dance about on a stage.

I think she's noticing it more, because there seems to be an increase in cleaning type ads last week or so, is it something to do with the schools being closed for summer, so more parents (women?) will be viewing them?

Lots of good points to talk with dd about here.

I suppose these adverts can at least be subverted as things to critique with your children. Apart from the sexist ones, my DD had her first introductions to matters of finance as a result of loan companies advertising in among kids TV shows.

She also said, if cooking is seen as the woman's job, then how come so many professional chefs are male?

Good point from your DD! Since 99% of Michelin starred chefs are men and men have invented, innovated and designed 99% of all kitchen appliances suggesting that only women are good around the kitchen is just bloody ludicrous!

www.chefsworld.net/blog/index.php/female-michelin-chefs-making-less-1-michelin-starred-chefs/

Yawn.

increasing the number of female prison inmates or rough sleepers

Why would anyone, male or female, want to see that? You want to reduce crime and homelessness, not increase it in the name of "equality" FFS.

"the reason men don't protest about adverts like this is that when they do it gets mocked as "male tears" or for possessing "fragile male egos". Worse, you can end up described as an MRA for raising issues of male portrayal, or accused of distracting from womens issues."

Men don't complain about sexist ads because they are scared of mockery from feminists?

Bollocks.

"Most women like to see themselves as better than men, at least at some things and in some ways"

Bollocks to that too. Most feminists have been fighting centuries to see themselves as being as good as men in a society that constantly tells them they are inferior. A feminist might be able to identify the bullshit that goes on but that doesn't mean she hasn't internalised the inferiority complex.

Of course these adverts are insulting to men and it may or may not be a feminist issue but it definitely is an issue about simply being nice and not wanting to stereotype anyone so as feminists are generally nice people I doubt you'd find many who endorse these ads.

I'm amazed at the level of controversy in this thread.

I guess my point was simply does it help anyone by lowering the 'ability' of any particular gender? oh our poor men. They can't cook so we have to Surely that's just beginning to sound like a route into martyrdom

Chelle, ads like this are shit. That's not controversial.

Because when women cook it's caring for the family. When men cook it's art.

Men don't complain about discriminatory ads about them because 1. they(we) couldn't be bothered to 2. this particular one means they(we) possibly get to do less and 3. the odd bit of advertising is hardly a 'threat' is it? The 'fear' of being criticised is a crock.

I totally think this is a feminist issue. I think the social context for men being incapable of cooking (poor souls) is that cooking, and other household tasks, are low-status jobs that men have traditionally not been expected to do. Of course a man can't cook - he's off running a business or doing super important things whilst his wife does the colking, so if he's on his own he's just as helpless as she would be trying to be CEO of a company or any other important job that clearly requires a penis.

Sure, this is patronising to men and that in itself is problematic, which I would think most feminists would care about but not see as directly their issue. But it's also stating that cooking (in the mundane, getting-good-on-the-table sense) is a female task and this is clearly a feminist issue.

And I'm not sure it's saying men are too stupid to cook. I think it's implying that men have no experience or knowledge of cooking because obvs they've been doing more important things all this time.

Of course this is a feminist issue!

It is a politicised broadcast of negative gender stereotypes which implies that the domestic sphere is women's work and that is is unreasonable for men to do it or be competant at it. This reinforces societal beliefs about inherent differences based on gender which are the foundation of patriarchy.

I don't think the ads are about gender roles here, I think they are about men being lazy and/or stupid in general and making the female consumer feel better about herself. This has been quite a popular theme for many years in the media and society, in general. Think of all the family based shows/sitcoms and how 90% are about the husband being a useless, lazy moron (along with all his friends and male relatives). Even on a non-family show like Seinfeld the smartest/most functional is the only female main character.

As the BBC link I posted earlier stated:

''Girls believe they are cleverer, better behaved and try harder than boys from the age of four, research suggests.

By the age of eight, boys had also adopted these perceptions, the study from the University of Kent found''

www.bbc.com/news/education-11151143

Can you blame them when they grow up surrounded by all this? Btw I've never watched Peppa Pig but from reading some of the threads on here the dad is portrayed like a typical idiot husband who is useless at everything ? The kids get bombarded with this stuff from day 1.

Are we done?

Are you one of those ''FWR regulars'' I keep hearing about who intimidate and bully the thousands of women who'd like to post here but don't? You're not doing women or feminism any favours and are the reason feminism has such a terrible rep with the general public.

Rewrite your post in a civilised manner and I might reply.

That's the thing about studies… you can always find one to say the opposite.

So a researcher questioned children in 2 Kent Primary Schools and found that in general girls think they are better behaved and cleverer than boys…. this guy analysed 30 International studies and found:

www.newsweek.com/men-women-and-iq-87117

men and women are fairly equal overall in terms of IQ. But women, it seems, underestimate their own candlepower (and that of women in general), while men overestimate theirs

I am not an FWR regular but I see nothing bullying about Yonic's post. Just reply if you want to and don't if you don't.

I had a big long post, but actually, lets just go with this:

Even on a non-family show like Seinfeld the smartest/most functional is the only female main character.

Lets highlight the relevant part

ONLY FEMALE MAIN CHARACTER

perhaps if shows were more evenly gendered, and the only female character wasn't 'mother' or 'hard-nosed business woman boss' then they'd have a chance to display a range of characteristics? Most shows manage to have a range of men with different skills and attributes, but the token woman just doesn't get a chance - she's there just as a character to fill in part of the plot, not as a character who actually gets to be something.

Even those adverts - the woman who generally cooks/cleans as she's so good at it (or so we're supposed to feel) is relegated to nodding/shaking her head and indulgently smiling while fixing the problem in the background, whilst the man is front and centre being the main character. It's verging on ridiculous when you look at the gender split.

That study says women underestimate their IQ but not that they think men's is higher than theirs. They are also international studies so the that make a huge difference since the concept of men being ''toxic'' or lazy/stupid, at best , might not be very popular in these places. I am mainly talking about the US and the UK.

You couldn't see the aggressiveness in her posts? ''Are we done''? ''Yawn''? Not only is it childish but also disrespectful to treat someone like that for simply stating an opinion. Now I get why most MNers call this place an echo chamber and never bother with it.

Interdasty - people talk like that (and way, way more aggressively) all over MN on all sorts of topics. The post makes an excellent point and I think you do not respond because of that, rather than the style of the post.

The researchers asked the participants to estimate their own IQ, rather than measure the participants’ actual intelligence. The team found a consistent difference in how intelligent men and women believe themselves to be; with men giving themselves significantly higher levels of intelligence in all 12 countries. Male participants awarded themselves higher scores in spatial and logical reasoning, as well as verbal ability.

The largest difference in self-rate intelligence was found in France, where men rated their intelligence on average 15 IQ points higher than the women did: such augmentations were found across eight out of the ten estimates of intelligence.

The second largest difference was in the British sample with males rating their intelligence on average 10 IQ points higher than the women did

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0904/09042001

I enjoy engaging with new posters who are here in good faith; given your posts here and on other FWR threads, Interdasty, I do not believe you are one of them.

You posted an incorrect and homophobic quote that you thought was great. So if you find me impolite for criticising it.

Its an advertising technique to sell to women. Does not have to be about 'women work' per se, though it can be cast that way. vis I saw an ad where the husband fixes a leaking tap and tells his wife its great and then he walks away. She straight away calls the plumber without even using the tap. While she is on the phone in the background behind her you see the tap beginning to leak even worse than it did before, with the contact details of the plumber flashing up on screen. Short form: 'Women know their man is far less competent than he thinks and work around that, rather than hurting his ego or risking failure.' Basically a sell through empathy and transfer/seizure of empowerment.