Research finds that daughters of working mothers earn more. Why are all the comments so sceptical?

[BrewsterToo]

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/having-a-working-mother-works-for-daughters?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2#comment-54416193

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/having-a-working-mother-works-for-daughters?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2#comment-54416193

I read this article (and skim read the original research article) and thought it was great that research shows long term positive and important side-effects of working mothers.

However, the comment section is dismal. Trying to discredit the article by questioning the method (whilst obviously not having read the original research article), stating that "happiness" or "choice" is a far more important outcome of a childhood and that therefore this research is irrelevant, that this research vilifies SAHM (it doesn't), that's it's feminist propaganda, etc etc.

Why???? It makes me dispair.

I'd love the breakdown between SAHM, works from home mum and WOHM.

It stands to reason that a woman currently working full time will be better placed to guide their daughter into good career choices than one whose been out of the working world for ~20 years, and this may result in a faster, more targeted career progression for the daughter.

What would be interesting is if the trend hold true for the daughters of those people who work from home, where home is their employment, say childminders etc. That would suggest this is far more than an obvious cause-and-effect link.

I suspect, though, whatever it turns out to be, it'll all end up being yet another stick to beat women with about their parenting choices.

I third that comment about schools (and LEA's for that matter!) needing to wake up, though - it's be lovely if DD's primary got the message sometime soon, although they have just missed their Outstanding from Ofsted purely on the basis of it, so there's hope!

The authors of the original research article are neutral in their description of the results. "success" and "successful career" are not their words, but it is how the media has picked up on this research. This sort of thing often happens with research. In trying to make it understandable to the lay person, some of the original work is lost, and bits are added on. It is often those journalistic embellishments that are picked on.

At what age (the children's) do you have to return to work to make this hold true I wonder?!

I returned to work when my kids were 11 and 8 I think, and my younger child's homework has seriously diminished in quality since then! So I might be a good influence on my older child (and I think that's true) but my younger child's school work has definitely dropped. He's male tough, so that is irrelevant to the study actually.

The research qualifies a working mother as someone who had paid work for at least a year between the ages of 0 and 14.

I think it is actually quite amazing that with such a low threshold, there is a measurable increase in income for daughters.

Yes, yes, Aggressivebunting all this busy work for mothers (because I don't know any fathers who respond to any of this) feels very oppressive.

yes, because I see that the sahms give their children a lot of hot housing, chauffering, help with homework etc that I don't manage (single parent, workingP.

It is just common sense, though, isnt it?

A sahms primary role is to look after the home, husband and children. She is seen to care and nurture, ferry kids around. She cooks, she cleans and tidies up.

A wohm is out there earning like men do.

One of these mums models gender equality, the other not so much. (Although I am sure that staying home with kids can be seen as feminist choice as any)

Both parents are role models, whether their offspring is male or female!

If the only parent is the mother then I think a model of mums doing everything is more present (whether she works or not). Before I could get out to work, my son used to say 'you're good at assembling furniture' and things like that. He son and my daughter see me do housework obviously but they don't see a father there on the sofa not doing it.

When I read about this research the phrase "the prize for winning the pie eating contest is more pies" came to mind. Daughters of WOHMs do better at work. Presumably daughters of SAHM therefore do better at staying at home? It's only a positive if you believe that the criterion of success is career advancement.

Daughters of WOHMs do better at work. Presumably daughters of SAHM therefore do better at staying at home? It's only a positive if you believe that the criterion of success is career advancement.

Or if you live in a country where both parents need to work to have enough money to house, feed, clothe their families, or a country where a lot of children live in poverty.

Oh, hang on...

True. Maybe the reason I haven't done that well at earning money is because I feel as though I only have one life and I'm not handing it over to an employer, I value my free time more. Saying that, I do work part-time. There are times when more money would be useful but I think, the bottom line must be that I value time more??
I'm certain my mum was the same. I talk to my daughter as though it's assumed she'll have a better career and earn more than I do.

Miggsie

As a working woman I can advise DD on work, attitudes of other workers on women in STEM, best ways of dealing with this (30 years of experience) which DH wouldn't have as great an insight into (having never experienced institutional sexism or being groped at work)
Thus DD is able to draw on knowledge about working life that she would only get otherwise from a mentor after she started work (if she actually found a mentor of course)

I'm firmly in the camp that everyone should do whatever works for their own family but it's a bit much to suggest that SAHM can't advise their DDs properly. All the SAHMs I know are well educated and perfectly capable of helping their DDs. I certainly am.

yeh,owlsescapade I agree with you.

I think, the experience of re-entering the workplace (as a mother) after a ten year gap taught me as much about sexism and ageism as my 13 years in the city in a male dominated environment.

I am well able to advise my daughter, if she chooses to listen! and it's not the return to work post maternity leave that has equipped me to give this advice.

Bonnie

I agree and tbh whilst I think it is good news for some people this type of research can only generalise and speculate.
There are far many variables for a start.
My dd is hoping to enter the same industry that I worked in over 20 odd years ago and many aspects haven't changed at all.
I know this as my dh works in the same industry and I have kept up to date with issues.
I can advise her just the same as if I was still working.

I also think that whether your sons learn the importance of housework is down to parenting not whether your mum works or not. Teach them to do it and make it their responsibility, it isn't rocket science.

As to leading by example in terms of a mother being employed I'm finding the complete opposite in my dds future plans. Whereas her best friend who is G&T academically is being taught by her working mum how to raise children and be good at childcare "because it's her role".
I can see how the research has come to these conclusions though and do agree it sounds good for those it applies to.

Possibly the article is simply an oversimplification but it seems to vague and generalised to extrapolate anything of mass significance.

GirlSailor - yes, careers vs jobs is a hugely important distinction to make here.

agressivebunting - yes yes yes to school crap eating up a lot of time.

It's nice to read that something positive might come out of working as us WOHM are usually hit by lots of negatives about how childcare produces psychopaths in the UK press.

As a wohm thats all I take from it. A minor sadness about role models. If Im honest my SAHM has provided no role model for my over achieving work life at all but my father provided huge amounts. Does it matter which parent it comes from?

One little thing I noticed somewhere on the thread was that their definition of a working mother was anyone who'd worked (P/T or F/T I guess?) for at least a year before their DC were 14. So on the spectrum of WOH/SAH experience a pretty generous/ inclusive interpretation of being a working mother.
So the SAHM in the study were either very committed to that role of motherhood/ lifestyle
or if open to working outside the home at some point were finding that seriously challenging to achieve (I am sympathetic as I know it's not easy to juggle both for all sorts of reasons)
So, I just think it's interesting to consider what we're looking at here, and what their definitions were. As I said in my earlier post there's obviously a big spectrum of experience to consider.
I'd think one of the main conclusions would be how minor any differences in outcome were for the next generation! So many other factors I suspect!

yes, I could look at the statistics and they could show that the daughters of women who work are more likely to have better careers, but after I split up from my x, my children needed me more, not less, and besides, what about my son!? and what about me!? I went back to work only when I could make it work around my other responsibilities, so according to this study I am a working but I find because I have only a job, i still identify with sahms, and/or single parents who can't afford to work.

I work 4.5 hours a week in a minimum wage job

Glad to see that my daughter will benefit from this

Having said that I am jacking it in within the next few months