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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hard wired for gender stereotyping?

11 replies

Thequestforunderstanding · 09/06/2015 18:56

OK, so I'm embarking on a new book (fiction) and its main theme will be this: how do men and women form loving, successful partnerships in the context of the new gender stereotypes that are developing in society. The character whose viewpoint we take is a man (as am I).

So, I'm a keen reader of pop psychology and sociology but (for context) have a background in the physical sciences (QM, cosmology and such). I'm in broad agreement with the principle that our gender stereotypes are learned rather than hard-wired, but from what I've read it does seem very important for even very small children to differentiate between the genders per se. Considering that the "blank slate" approach to child development has now been broadly discounted, and how various experiments have shown how important it is for us to form tribes (in one mathematical simulation it was shown that it can directly benefit the spread of genes to be tribal), is it possible / likely that we can't help but identify with our own gender?

If this is the case (thoughts please!) then it occurs to me that trying to create a society free of gender stereotypes may do more harm than good. My argument would be this: gender stereotypes provide necessary tools for us to make sense of the world around us. If we attempt to remove gender stereotypes completely, we are left with one of two situations:
a) men and women are simply unable to form a coherent picture of who they are as individuals.
b) Stereotypes sneak in by the back door, and aren't recognized for what they are.

My opinion is that men are falling into category a) and women into b). Remove the validity of the traditional male stereotypes and non-gender specific traits that are associated with men become something that may be rejected. So, for example, men are "supposed" to be protective of women. This is a gender stereotype associated with much of what is wrong with a misogynistic society. However, the desire to want to protect the important women in a man's life has (in an ideal, equal society) nothing to do with his gender or the genders of those he is wanting to protect. This leaves the man with no reference point, and he has to go through the process, trial and error, of learning how to express those feelings without being sexist. Many men will simply give up, as only the emotionally intelligent and sensitive will be able to work it out.

The new female stereotype of the woman as being able to do everything on her own - successful career, well-rounded childcare, look after hopeless hubby etc etc - not only contributes to the problems of male a) but potentially puts women in the invidious position of consciously rejecting help from others on the basis that its not what a woman should do. If a desire to conform to stereotypes is hard-wired, then following the ultra-capable woman stereotype is a real bind. Whilst there are ultra-capable women out there who do have loving, equal partnerships it seems that they are happy because they are with ultra-capable men. Most women are not ultra-capable and most men are not either, so a woman confronted with the ultra-capable woman stereotype must either seek out one of the few ultra-capable men or choose to reject men altogether. Or feel a failure because she isn't ultra-capable and is, therefore, not a proper woman.

Boiling it all down, I suppose the questions I have are these: how do we know whether or not the idealized models of men and women we are designing through feminism are not gender stereotypes themselves, and if we inevitably have gender stereotypes no matter what we do, what should those stereotypes look like?

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 11/06/2015 07:00

You know that women have worked throughout history, right?

Oh, and I don't think "looking after hopeless hubby" is part of anybody's brave new paradigm, except that of some shit advertisers of cleaning products.

BrewsterToo · 18/06/2015 17:06

Your hypotheses about what would happen if there were no gender stereotypes to refer to is a load of bollocks.

So you think that a non-gender specific trait that is associated with men, like protecting, may be rejected? What do you base this on? I'm not aware that when women protect someone (a trait according to you, apparently, not associated with women), it isn't rejected. Why do you think it will cause some existential crisis in men? Does protecting really constitute a big part of what men do? Wouldn't they just get on with life and protect when it's needed?

Your hypotheses about ultra-capable women is even more far-fetched. It doesn't follow that a woman who doesn't perceive herself as ultra-capable either seeks out ultra-capable men or would reject men altogether. It's rubbish.

BrewsterToo · 18/06/2015 17:10

I'm not aware that when women protect someone (a trait according to you, apparently, not associated with women), it isn't rejected.

not aware that it is rejected, that should be.

dadtojet1 · 30/06/2015 16:06

It is widely believed that sexisim comes from the man however looking closer at it it is mostly women who gender stereo type. Lets take a basic thing as parenting. A lot of people believe that women give birth so they have a right to look after the children. Thankfully the courts are looking at the childs best intrest now and not just placing them with their mothers.

I dropped my son off at school today and found their is a mothers only group another form of gender stero typing as well as this mother's group that we are chatting on it is based on women. The name says it all mums net set up by parents or something along those lines from my interpretation insinuating that its just the mum who os the parent. This form of gender sterotyping will never stop untill it is dealt with by the government. To cut a long story short I applied for child maintainance and I was rejected payments because I am male and was told it's due to the fact I'm not female.

YonicScrewdriver · 30/06/2015 18:33

Hello new poster

The OP of this thread is a man, if that helps?

BakingCookiesAndShit · 30/06/2015 20:46

To cut a long story short I applied for child maintainance and I was rejected payments because I am male and was told it's due to the fact I'm not female.

Your pants are on fire there, old bean. The person who claims the child benefit is deemed the resident parent, and that is predicated on who has the children for the longest time during the week. You don't. You don't get maintenance. Nothing to do with the fact you have a dick or are a dick

RufusTheReindeer · 30/06/2015 21:51

Thank fuck for that

Just saw dad on another thread and thought he was my brother

He isn't......

BakingCookiesAndShit · 30/06/2015 22:47

Hmmm, although that does mean that there are certainly at least 2 utter spunktrumpets in the world.

RufusTheReindeer · 30/06/2015 22:58

In defence of my brother he isn't actually a twat

It's just the name was very close

My brother can spell and everything

HouseMouseQueen · 22/08/2015 23:31

Blank slate or not, gender is social and constructed based on our biology. Women are doing the hard work of liberating ourselves from gender so why can't men? The truth is they can.

The problem is men think protecting means ownership. You, as a woman can protect your child but women don't think they own their kids. They think chivalry means they get to tell women what to do. It's like their help comes with strings.

Men have to start changing the way they relate to the world. I see nothing wrong with having them do the the work.

shovetheholly · 24/08/2015 08:16

"men and women are simply unable to form a coherent picture of who they are as individuals."

Laughing at the idea that people have a coherent picture of who they are as individuals under late capitalism, which will somehow be 'ruined' by accepting what is staring all of us in the face - the provisionality of most of our categories of identity.

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