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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sports and sex segregation

142 replies

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 17:15

The Roland Garros and the women's football WC this week reminded me again what I hate about sports : sex segregation. It simply reinforces the idea that men's sports are the real deal, while women's sports are a second-class. What we need to do it stop segregating boys and girls at young ages, just let them play in the same teams or events as they do before the teenage years. This way society won't see women as ''physically inferior'' and a sort of sub-par version of men. No team should be called the male or female this or that and not allowing the other sex to join, if good enough, should be illegal. Something similar happened in the US around the middle of the last century : black athletes were not allowed to compete against whites not only because of pure racism, but also because blacks were considered inferior athletes. The moment they were allowed to compete against whites was the moment they started taking over US sports and these days they almost completely dominate the most popular sports across the pond.

Women are not inferior, sub-par or a lesser version of men. They shouldn't be forced to compete in their own leagues and events. Sports are a huge part of our society and great for building confidence and teaching structure to young people. What kind of message do girls get so early in life when they are told that they should go play in a league of their own because boys are better? No wonder women grow up believing they can't go for a STEM degree or negotiate their salary ''like a man''!

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TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 18:48

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LassUnparalleled · 07/06/2015 18:49

Sorry my last post was irrelevant. As was the OP's reply to BlackRider's pertinent question.

CaptainHolt · 07/06/2015 18:49

Speed and strength are massively important in football. Lots of top footballers can sprint at speeds that rival world champion sprinters. DD plays on a girls team. If she was forced to play with boys then A. she would quit or B. She would be dropped.

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 18:52

Yonic, google image ''female tennis players arms'' and you'll see what I mean!

Serena is just one example, she has bigger arms than 99% of male tennis players. Yet the bastard Andy Murray said he'd be surprised if any woman would be in the top 1000 (yes one thousand) in the men's ranking. No idea how he figured that one out.

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TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 18:54

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CaptainHolt · 07/06/2015 18:56

The top serve speed in the women's singles at wimbledon in 10km/h slower than for the 16th highest in the mens singles (123 vs 133 km/h)

They only show the top 16. Top speed for men is 143km/h - 20km/h faster than the top woman.

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 18:58

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YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 18:58

Well, quite, Captain.

ChunkyPickle · 07/06/2015 18:59

Not sure size of arms actually correlates to strength in quite the way you seem to be suggesting...

Anyway, I'm not really into sport. I watch some motorbike racing (the occasional female rider), some UFC (female fighters are relatively new, so the quantity isn't there, but the quality is on a par with the early days of the male UFC, so I don't see why it shouldn't be as good in a few of years)

How would it work if you had weight/height classes for everything rather than splitting on genitals? Are men and women of a similar size of similar ability? I'm not sure they are as our body compositions are different.

MoseShrute · 07/06/2015 18:59

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YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 18:59

Andy Murray was shocked by the backlash against him hiring Mauresmo and has spoken out against it.

Wait, let me check if ThatBastardMurray is still free as a user name...

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:01

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YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:01

"If we abolished segregated sports women would be completely unrepresented in nearly everything. How would this be a good thing??"

I think OP thinks this would be a good thing...

ChunkyPickle · 07/06/2015 19:01

Out of interest, what was the top serving speed 20 or 30 years ago? I'm going to guess it was lower - yet people still watched, apparently it was still as interesting and exciting..

How about the 1969 Mens' World Cup - how did their fitness/skills compare to present day? That was still pretty exciting though wasn't it?

Suggests to me that the women's games not being exciting enough might have a touch of bunkem about it.

ChunkyPickle · 07/06/2015 19:02

Ah, TBR, I had a suspicion that might be the case... darn that testosterone!

TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:03

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CaptainHolt · 07/06/2015 19:05

Lots of people DP prefer women's tennis because apparently you get more hitting the ball backwards and forwards rather than just banging it straight to the back where the bending over women in pleated skirts stand. It's not really my thing. I prefer the women game because you only have to sit through 3 of them instead of 5. And the way they almost finish then all of a sudden they are on equal points again - it's inhumane

CaptainHolt · 07/06/2015 19:05

x_posts

I suspect BlackRider made the point more elegantly than me

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:08

This OP and subsequent posts sounds incredibly familiar. Have you posted on this topic, and made the same argument before, op?

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:09

Think so whirlpool

This is good
www.ted.com/talks/david_epstein_are_athletes_really_getting_faster_better_stronger/transcript?language=en

WhirlpoolGalaxyM51 · 07/06/2015 19:11

The interesting thing to consider, and I don't know the answer here Grin is what sport would look like if it hadn't always been men in charge. The point of sport and sporting competition was to exercise the male body, and compete men / teams of men against each other. Men and women have different bodies in terms of where they are strong and where they are not. It's not surprising that women and girls are not good at things that showcase male physiology. I wonder what sport would look like if it had been invented by and for women?

There's no way of knowing obviously Grin and possibly it would look just the same and possibly the things would be different but men would still be better at them!

YonicScrewdriver · 07/06/2015 19:13

Sorry lost half my post

Chunky the above link shows how athletes have got faster largely due to surface and other improvement - the 1936 Olympics was still thrilling though, no doubt!

Close rivalries (eg Graf/Seles) or a magnetic outstanding performer (eg Bolt) make sport interesting along with national/team loyalty. Speed of serve or maximum distance of ball kick are components but by no means all!

AICM · 07/06/2015 19:13

At the London 2012 games the winning time in the women's race was 2 hours 23 min. This would place her in 64th in a combined race.

Ennuid · 07/06/2015 19:16

TBR,

I get your point, you think women are physically inferior. I disagree, especially when it comes to sports where skill is far more important than size or strength. May I ask what you think about non-physical sports? Chess, darts, snooker, pool, bridge... fuck, even poker! For some reason men also dominate those games as well and women have their own competitions and titles. Do women need their own leagues there too? How would you like to be told that you're pretty good for a girl at chess and you should try for the girls' tournament ? Blacks are also underrepresented in chess but how absurd and insulting would it be to have blacks only competitions? But it's ok for women to be treated as ''lesser thans''...

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TheBlackRider · 07/06/2015 19:20

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