Suicide now biggest killer of teenage girls worldwide

[grimbletart]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11549954/Teen-girls-Suicide-kills-more-young-women-than-anything.-Heres-why.html

We are used in FWR to men pointing out the terrible toll of suicide on males and we are quick to agree it is disturbing and saddening and the high rates are also acknowledged in the article above.

What I wasn't aware of was that suicide is the biggest killer of teenage girls worldwide (although I did already know the figures were extraordinarily high in South East Asia/China, where female suicides is higher than male).

In Europe the rate of suicide among girls/young women aged 15-19 is 6.15 per 100,000 and globally it is 11.73. In south east Asia it is 27.92.

A Childline supervisor talks about the relentless pressure on girls in the West and a teenager who tried to kill herself aged 13 talks about the relentless pressure of porn and the control it is exerting. She also describes the pressures of online media e.g. the Kardashians and their waist-slimming corsets as an example of the the insecurity it causes among girls.

In Asia the suicide rate is fuelled by cultural restrictions etc. in girls and financial insecurities in boys.

i know it is an extremely complex issue and there is no one single cause for male or female suicide, but I really wish we could do something more about getting rid of porn (which I believe is neither use nor ornament) and the celeb/mag culture (ditto, neither use nor ornament). I really hate the idea that it is a freedom of speech issue and the way so many think it is mature or ''cool' to shrug it off - we are sleepwalking into a disaster for our daughters and our sons.

I do think that most people think that girls committing suicide is pretty rare though, so in the context of that, an article which basically says "it's more common than you think" is perfectly alright to my mind.

But just singling out girls, as the article does, makes it seem as though "Girls have to be protected" when boys can be left to take their lumps and bumps

This is the first article I've seen in years about female suicide. I've seen many in the press about male suicide. And the comments on the articles are nearly always respectful which you don't see when it's about women/girls.

I believe whenever any young person takes their own life (or anyone for that matter!) it is a tragedy. If it helps in the analysis of root causes, by all means we should look at pressures from being uniquely one gender or another.

However if someone close to me kills themselves, what gender they happen to be makes fuck all difference. It's devastating. Anyone who can take on and tackle anything that makes this less likely even if that's just something that affects men or women is a good thing surely?

I think the point to make is that one of the main causes of both of male and female suicides is the same: a failure to fit in with the demands of patriarchy.

There is so much for both sexes to fail against when we live in a society that demands men be strong dominant, competent and very heterosexual whilst women be sexy but not slutty, pretty but not vain, or in some countries tells them they are just plain inferior. Those are the values that patriarchy has left us and that is what needs to be changed.

Ennuid, it is unsurprising that women police other women, be it FGM, or the pressure to shave one's legs. We have been brought up in the same system and taught the same values, values which ultimately value one gender's sexual pleasure over the other's and which socially punishes (very strongly in some countries) those who don't conform. I have been "policed" by both men and women but the aim of that policing is the same: make yourself attractive to men..

I have been "policed" by both men and women but the aim of that policing is the same: make yourself attractive to men..

And the same is true for men, isn't it? Be strong, be assertive, be rich, be athletic, be handsome and muscular, because that is what women want.Or don't you think men get messages from society?

yops she listed things men are pressurised to be and do in her post! if you read it again, it's not very far in.

I don't understand how you managed to get to the end of that and miss the fact that she talked about men and women all the way through tbh

Nope, neither do I - brain fail. I wrote it before my first coffee. Apologies, Messy.

Actually I think men are policed to "Be strong, be assertive, be rich, be athletic, be handsome and muscular" for other men. Not for women.

messy, that's exactly what I was saying. You can't blame men for being victims of other men the same way you can't blame women for being victims of other women. Patriarchy is not something men do to women, it is something everyone does to everyone. We all impose the gender roles and social norms on each other, men or women.

I guess my point is you can't dismantle the current setup if most women are not on board. The only feminism popular with the average girl or woman these days is the Beyonce Twatter type. As long as women from London to New York to Timbuktu keep wanting men who are tall, confident, successful, assertive, ambitious etc while the men want submissive, attractive, nurturing etc women nothing will change. Both sexes need to be on board for it to happen, otherwise they will just keep conforming to each other's wants and needs in a perpetual cycle. It's a lot like the nuclear arms race, you can't end it unless both sides unequivocally agree to it.

Meanwhile, you have ''feminists'' like Emma Watson who claim both men and women should be liberated from their gender roles yet her boyfriends are giant hunks twice her size and she states how she just lurvvvs american guys because they are bold and ask her out right away instead of waiting for 2 months like the shy british men do. Since apparently not even one of the most famous and successful women in the world who can hold speeches in front of the UN, star in the biggest movie franchise of all time, is an Ivy league graduate and is worth gazillions still can't find a way to utter the words ''Wanna go out with me?'' to a man . Do as i say not as i do.

^"Patriarchy is not something men do to women..." Hmmm. I wonder why its called patriarchy?

Ah, do you identify as a radical feminist then, EnnuidNow? You think the whole system needs dismantling?

Ennuid's got a very good point imo. It does take two to tango, we all make the world. It is difficult because we all make the world but we all have to live in it too, and compromises are required. Every compromise makes us complicit, but there is nothing else to be done. But there are some women, presumably lacking in education, information and thought, who go beyond the realm of compromise and actively support male dominance and unpleasantness.

Ultimately though women lose out more as a class than men and women are more likely to rebel against it than men. Hence 'feminists' are mostly women.

I don't know what radical feminism is by the way, I don't know the theory I just 'know what I like' . The whole system being dismantled sounds good!

Why would you think that men are supposed to be alpha-male only for the sake of other men? Isn't it possible that these traits are what (some) women find desirable in a partner? Women present themselves to impress men and other women, so why wouldn't men be the same?

I'd say that Sepp Blatter and Bernie Ecclestone have done rather well in attracting female companions by demonstrating power and wealth. I don't think this is an accidental by-product of their behaviour.

I think it's different. Men aren't taught that finding the dream woman is the be all and end all. Independence and money are good things to have in themselves.

Being beautiful is of no real use to you other than to attract a man.

I struggle to fit some of these comments in with what I see of the world.

For example the problems faced by women and girls in say rural India, or Afghanistan, or the Congo, have very little to do with this conversation which seems to have moved onto (perceived) choices of women in countries like the UK.

If you look at many countries around the world you will see very clearly that it is men who are setting the rules, controlling who does what, often men as well as women, but with women at the bottom of the heap in some cases by a very wide margin.

I personally would say the situation in countries like the UK is not rosy but to the eyes of people who live here the oppression is harder to see, and is less extreme. We have some appalling situations though which when considered show that the bog-standard patriarchal set-up is well in evidence here.

I would also like to express my view that Emma Watson can fuck whoever she likes, and saying her choice of sexual partners is anti-feminist / anti-women / pro-patriarchy is ludicrous.

People are always telling women who they must and mustn't fuck aren't they.

It's really shit.

Shall we have a strop about the attractiveness of the partners of men who wore that "this is what a feminist looks like" t shirt?

Benedict Cumberbatch. Taller than his wife. Bloody stereotypes.

Nick Clegg. His wife is Spanish. Insert something offensive about "exotic beauty" here.

Ed Milliband. I am pretty sure Justine would score higher than him in any "1000 cutest Britons" poll. Oh, man uses power to punch above his weight, bloody patriarchy.

Nope, let's criticise a young woman with the ovaries to front a major campaign instead because, well, vagina.

The problem is the patriarchy isn't all men or even most men it is a handful that hold power, those that control the press, control the TV and feed people what they didn't even know they want. It was the ruling class and religion and the average working class man is shaped just as much as the average woman. We are taught to consume reality tv and told what to believe while things like TTIP happen and affect the world and we have done nothing because we don't even know it is going on.

It was easier to control people before social media where the simple use of stigmatising language would stifle any outcry. There is a lot for all of us to do. And Emma Watson he for she yes we are damsels in distress that need men to help us obviously.

I disagree that's what HeForShe means, SEB; both women and men should be against discrimination by sex just as all ages should be against discrimination by age etc.

I have only a vague awareness of who emma watson is but from what I do know, I don't understand why she randomly appears to be coming under attack here

I doubt she cares much she's probably off having glamorous sex with a pro-feminist hunk right now

I like Emma Watson. No one is perfect and it takes guts to come out as a feminist.

I also agree with Whirlpool. The complexity of who does what to whom over here fades when you look at countries where the aims and one sidedness of patriarchy is more starkly obvious. How many women and girls are actually missing from the world population?

I really liked the phrase that the doctor used in that report to describe the cause behind female suicides in societies where females aren't valued: "logical despair"

Liked that too, messy. Reminded me of the no nonsense that sometimes happens on here: "yes, you might have PND, or you might be having a reasonable response to the fact you are up six times in the night and your husband, who slept through, is yelling at you for burning his breakfast..."