Feminism for tiny children?

[TheOriginalWinkly]

Apologies if this sounds stupid, this is my first post in this section of Mumsnet although I've lurked for quite a while. Since lurking I've had my eyes opened to a lot of things that previously passed me by.

I was wondering when and how to start teaching feminism /pointing out gender stereotyping to very small children. DD is only 10 months old but this morning I popped her in front of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse (terrible parenting yes) and noticed that Minnie was dressed in pink (Minnie Mouse used to wear red), Minnie and Daisy had high heels on when the male characters had sensible shoes or bare feet, and when they were wishing for something the females wished for bows and flowers whereas the males wished for balls and bicycles. Obviously at this age I can turn the tv off but why do they do this? And when and how can I teach DD that actually, she can want a ball or bike just as much as the boys?

Sorry for the incoherent ramble :)

From the day she is born.

Honestly. Ok when very young it is just offering options. When older you might ask the child what he or she would wish for and explore why.

You can choose films and TV programmes with more balance and where women have agency.

You can very consciously compliment bravery and strength not just appearance.

Start with real life. Both parents clean, cook, care for the baby and do things outside of the home.

This will have far more impact than external 'stories' in the longer term.

So make sure your own household is giving the right impression with respect to 'what men do' and 'what women do', and then it's easier to comment on difference that appear in make believe externally.

At 10 mos though, you should probably also open your ears to what your friends and relatives are saying to her 'oh, pretty girl! What a lovely dress! Isn't she beautiful!' and the gifts they are buying her. And then listening to what they are saying to boy babies 'what a big boy! Aren't you strong!'

Art reflects life and all that, and with the provenance of Disney back in the heyday of gloves and pretty shoes for the laydeez, I don't think it's the place I'd start. Particularly with it being so easy to turn off.

If this is the first dd you have, then it is entirely normal you are now recognising this stuff and the gendered message. But it's way wider than sodding Minnie.

And you don't have to teach her that it's ok to ask for a ball instead of a skipping rope. You give her both, and play with her with all sorts of toys, and get your male partner if you have one to do the same (he can skip and play tea parties as well, it won't make his penis fall off

If you haven't read 'Cinderella ate my daughter', do it now.

But ultimately, girls can watch all this shit and still make their own minds up. Really. In the same way that letting a boy dance won't turn him gay, buying a girl a ball won't make her a feminist. Kids will grow up and decide who they want to be, as long as we give them enough options. Even girls who watch crap on television.

I completely agree with madwoman. Give her flowers, bows, bikes, and balls and let her pick! She'll learn a lot more from your example than anything Minnie Mouse might say.

To be fair to my friends and relatives, the gifts have been great so far (except pink Alfie bear. Red Alfie bear is annoying enough). DH is a great role model, we both work shifts so are splitting childcare between us and though he was anxious at first it's great seeing how they're bonding. He's always pulled his weight around the house. I doubt he can skip though, I would enjoy seeing it

It's quite difficult not to tell her how pretty she is, because obviously I think she's the most gorgeous child ever. But I do try already to praise her for perseverance, though it sounds a bit 'performance parenting'. I'll have a look at that book thanks.

My 4 yo wanted to buy clothes for our twins. The pink one said 'mummy's little cutie' and the blue 'daddy's little driver' with a picture of a car.

I said we wouldn't buy them and tried to explain, saying mummies/girls can drive just as well as daddies/boys so it was a bit silly and boys are just as cute as girls.

He accepted it and went home and told DH that we didn't buy them 'because babies can't drive anyway'!

I do think it's important to challenge some of the preconceptions though.

Point out things to her: "How strange Rapunzel waits for a prince instead of climbing out herself" Look, it's as if only Micky and Pluto like balls, but lots of girls like them, you for instance."

And immediately add to compliments she gets. (random stranger/ auntie): How pretty she is! You: She is really good on her scooter.

Look on amightygirl.com for current and future ideas.

To be fair, Rapunzel couldn't climb down her own hair, could she? That would have been all circular and weird.

I don't see a huge problem in admiring a child's looks as such - excuse me, I didn't have girls - I thought my boys were beautiful and didn't mind telling them so. Nothing wrong with being comfortable with how you look. The problem comes in when it's only girls whose looks get comments, and only for "feminine" characteristics. IMO, obviously.

Agree with offering a choice of toys. Suggest if anyone tries to say something is "not for girls" you practice an incredulous laugh. "A ball? Not for girls? What on earth do you mean?" Don't defend your views, make them defend theirs. Because let's face it, they are the ones being daft. Logically it makes no sense whatsoever.

Don't put her down if she actually likes traditionally girly things. If she likes her pink Alfie bear (whatever that might be) let her.

And don't, as she gets older, go on about sport and games if she genuinely has no interest in them. Encouraging girls to take part in sport gets mentioned a lot on here. Failing to see the point of hockey or rugby does not mean she will be a page 3 girl.

And I don't see why you should not tell her she is pretty. I occasionally see little girls (I suppose they might be little boys as one can't really tell at that age) wearing party dresses /princess dresses at the supermarket. Presumably because they like dressing up. I'd think it a bit odd that telling her (or him) what a pretty dress she (or he) is wearing was met with a comment about scooter riding ability.

Sorry the sport thing is a bit of a hobby horse. Sport gets promoted as being essential to being a well rounded individual far more than say classical music.

Well it just so happens DH is better than me at earning money, and digging (I'm feeble at digging ), and ironing and I'm better at cooking, and enjoy looking after the DC. So it might follow that our DC think they should conform to traditional rolls.

But our DC have managed to grow up believing they can do anything. My 12 year old DS recently bought some nail varnish while out with friends (and is now chuckling that they think he's gay) and DD is convinced she's going to play basketball for LA Lakers (she's short, white and female, so good luck with that one DD ). Just two small examples of how my children haven't been brainwashed, or emotionally stunted by DH and my actions.

So I would say it's all in your attitude.

As other people have said. I don't think there is anything wrong with dressing them in pink or them playing with dolls as long as they know they have the choice. Obviously not at 10months.
My daughter is 16months, has loads of dolls but also have loads of cars, balls, a golf set and she plays with them equally.

Annie - though my DD1 (aged 6) did say to me the other day "why didn't she just cut her hair off and then climb down it". I said "I don't know. I suppose it would be a short story".

In Tangled Rapunzel does come down her own hair!

This is it isn't it - it's about not restricting them in any direction - giving them all the options and letting them choose. DS1 loved cars, but didn't care about soft toys. DS2 is more eclectic, and is as likely to be found putting a car to bed and tucking it in as his baby. Both love bracelets and necklaces - let them all be themselves and don't push anything other than that it's their choice.

She could if she were able to secure the hair at the top somewhere - maybe the Prince was climbing up with a hammer and nails!

Mum to her DS, aged about 3, on swing next to my DD similar age: "Don't cry like a GIRL!"
Me:

I raged about it to DP for ages!

I personally push the nonconforming toys. If you do nothing, the whole world, family, friends, nursery, TV... will turn a girl pink, sweet and meek and viola, she has "chosen" Barbie. You need to be the one to do the tree climbing, Lego, tent building until she is really good at them, only then will she be able to pick and mix.

I understand your fury, pieces, that's rotten. Did dd hear?

O m in the midst of this at the moment with dd(2).

She wasn't really into much of anything until she saw Frozen. This seemed to open the floodgates and suddenly it was Elsa, Tinkerbell and wall to wall princesses.

She loves her princess dressing up stuff, fairy wings etc etc and tbf if it's what she loves I'm going to indulge her.

However she showed a minor interest in pirates and I leapt on it! She now loves pirates in all their forms and the film of the minute is Peter Pan. I do like it when she chooses to play with trucks, dinosaurs etc and she does have some, but if I'm truthful they can't really compete with the lure of princesses and fairies.

I was the least girly girl ever and was massively into horses, but as much as I'd love dd to be like that I'm not going to dictate to her what she can and can't play with. I just stand on the sidelines and try to quietly influence

She's only 2, so I'm still hopeful she'll be a tomboy

I'm a LP who works full time so I have no doubt she'll see a good feminist influence from me. I earn the money, clean the house, clear the U bend and fix stuff..... In my mind she can be anything she wants, including a fairy princess (I'd try to hide my disappointment )

medium.com/thelist/papas-please-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-princesses-7dc7c2ec7cd2

Thought this blog was interesting - it is important to avoid giving the message that pink princesses can't be engineers. If done clumsily, then "you can play with trains and dolls" can come across as "playing with trains is better than dolls". Both are important. DP was a bit eyerolly about getting DS a toy pushchair, I suspect because he's internalised the "girly toys are rubbish" thing so didn't expect DS to be interested in it. (I knew he was because he played with them a lot at baby groups that had any).

If you do nothing, the whole world, family, friends, nursery, TV... will turn a girl pink, sweet and meek - this is how I feel. I wouldn't dream of criticising her choices, and if she begs for a Barbie for her birthday in later years I'm not going to force her to have an Action Man, but society expects little girls (and yes, little boys) to be a certain way. It's only DH and I who are around enough to tell her that there's other options. Not 'better' or 'boys' options, just other options full stop.

Make sure dh makes fairy cakes with her and you go digging for worms together. Works for us so far, she's 7 and recently told someone "I'm not cute, I'm awesome." in response to a compliment. Bit over confident maybe but certainly not sweet and meek .

reni1 thankfully no! She was too busy singing very loudly with her jeans slipping down, showing off her builder's bum in a most un-GIRLY-like fashion!! Love the "awesome" comment!

What is a "most un GIRLY-like fashion " ?