Troubled by NHS gender dysphoria page

[CollatalieSisters]

Linked in the "born in wrong body" thread. Sorry if already done to death, but I was shocked by this. Are others?

How would it be if the NHS identified a condition whereby sufferers of the condition found it painfully difficult to confirm to, say, a social expectation that they should have sex only with people of the opposite sex? or of the same race?

My question is, at what point does it cease to be a medical condition and start to be a symptom of a fucked up society?
www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

"Signs of gender dysphoria

The first signs of gender dysphoria can appear at a very young age. For example, a child may refuse to wear typical boys' or girls' clothes, or dislike taking part in typical boys' or girls' games and activities.

In most cases, this type of behaviour is just a normal part of growing up and will pass in time, but for those with gender dysphoria it persists into later childhood and through to adulthood.

Adults with gender dysphoria can feel trapped inside a body that does not match their gender identity. They may feel so unhappy about social expectations that they live according to their anatomical sex, rather than the gender they feel themselves to be."

Other parts relate to problems of physicality, which I find it easier to conceptualize. And I don't begin to understand how painful this condition must be.

But playing with the wrong toys? Really?

The Owen Jones CIF piece is about the delay in Stonewall speaking for trans people, not the rush.

'People who feel that their bodies are "wrong" in sex and suffer dysphoria can often in the medium to long term find that the physical measures they too, lead to health problems and other kinds of dysphoria.'

Really, do you have empirical evidence that this happens 'often'? I'm really not seeing your problem here.

katharine, first thing following a random google:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

my reasons for saying "often" were more personal anecdotal accounts I have read, however.

"my" problem? I don't get what you aren't seeing as I have posted pretty ahem comprehensively. Sorry I am not sure what you aren't getting. If you doubt that "my" problem is a cause for anyone else to be concerned, that's one thing. but I think i have been pretty clear about what "my" problem is / are

However just in case not, one aspect of "my" problem is I AM VERY WORRIED THAT YOUNG GIRLS WITH SHORT HAIR (especially one I am very fond of) MIGHT BE IRREVOCABLY DAMAGED BY PHYSICAL "TREATMENT" THAT THEY NEED NOT HAVE

which, by the way, is really actually happening, outlandish as I gather it seems to you

The Owen Jones piece is a hastily written band-wagon jumping piece which demonstrates that he is afraid of not speaking out in support of trans gender activists.

This thread is not about Trans Activists. It is about information on the NHS Website. Must all threads about Trans be about the PITA Activists?

OP here. Dione what troubles me about the description is the idea that non-conformity to gender expectations is a normal childhood phase. It will pass.

Whereas discontent with gender roles is a perfectly normal human experience and may persist throughout life, whether as a personal feeling, a political viewpoint or both.

Plus which the assignment of toys to children based on their genitalia is so totally mad, arbitrary and actually sometimes plain offensive, that have trouble getting my head round the idea that it can be a clinical indicator.

Do I believe in the condition? Yes, but in a very bewildered sort of way. I see gender as a (largely destructive) social concept and so my instinct would be to see discomfort with gender expectations as a political position rather than a health condition. However it is clear that people are enduring enormous suffering, and I have no wish to deny them a recognition or a status that might help them.

I worry about medicialisation of very common feelings, as namechanged says - especially for young people. I still refuse to play with the toys intended for my gender, like make up and high heels - just never been interested. Perfectly happy being a woman, in terms of my physicality. But had I been told at a young age that my personal preferences were symptoms of gender dysmorphia, then I might have believed that they were.

Do you see what I mean?

I see your point completely, OP. To say that for a child to reject gender stereotyping is 'phase they will grow out of' is just awful.

I was that child. I'm still that woman. I have no gender dysmorphia.

When I look at my old primary school photos from the 70s, the children are dressed identically whether boys or girls (with the exception of dresses/skirts). Jeans, trouser, T shirts, jumpers, trainers, there's no sign of boys' colours or girls' styles, if you cover the faces there's no clue as to whether it's a boy or girl. Toys were far less gender oriented (although I was unusual in having an Action Man as well as a Sindy), and children were subjected to less stereotyping. The current situation is a form of thought control on children as a result of patriachal society's panic over gender roles; conform, fit in, accept your stereotype, or you might have something medically wrong with you.

Someone above linked to a website about intersex people. If anything the history of genital mutilation of intersex children is an argument for not 'treating' children who cross gender boundaries with drugs and surgery. Surely best to accept children are different and have a light touch on the physical stuff until people are adults and are able to make decisions for themselves.

And on a lighter note I do not have feminine sexual urges if the definition of wanting to be manipulated is correct