Polly Vernon 'Hot Feminism'

[Merse]

Massive caveat - I haven't read her book. BUT, I did hear Polly V on today's Woman's Hour and was not impressed. Gist seems to be - feminists should be allowed to wear make-up/look hot/like wolf-whistles and still be a feminist. Basically. She has no issue with Page 3. Says we live in a 'visual society' so people should be allowed/encouraged to adorn themselves. Thoughts anyone?

I hate the word "hot" when used to describe women.

He was in his 70s bless him. I thought it was sweet. Completely different from having comments shouted out about the size of of my breasts.

What is said. Who says it. The situation it is said in. The attitude of the person it is directed too. They are all variable. Your examples, were he instead not in his 70's but in his 20's, what you thought about it would doubtless be significantly different than 'it was sweet'. Shouted comments about the size of your breasts on the other hand have no latitude to be affected by other variables because on its own its just too extreme.

She also thought it was okay when she got caught letching over a guy working in a coffee shop, even though he wasn't happy about it. Her words. She said it's because the women letching over men dynamic is different than vice versa.

Why is that her thinking? How is it different? I would say there are a few different things in the inverted dynamic but it remains fundamentally very similar. The man usually sees it as annoying behaviour rather than harassment, as there is less potential threat in the dynamic, unless the woman does it from a position of power.

Review of the book by Helen Lewis:

here

DadwasHere ive had a similar comment from a guy in his twenties and still took it as it was meant....a compliment. (ive lost weight and live in a small town so a few people have commented)

That review is brilliant :)

I loved Helen Lewis's review.

Her version of feminism sounds like it has been adjusted so as not to inconvenience men too much, or hurt their feelings.
The right to wolf-whistle and demean.

Only a tiny number of feminists would criticise other women for wearing makeup and nice clothes. Far more men & women criticise women who don't match up to society's expectations about appearance.

Her version of feminism just comes across to me as stupidity - she has entirely and spectacularly missed the point. Feminism isn't about preventing women from wearing make up or looking "hot" - why would a political movement even be bothered about that? It's a common perception though and it's a failure to separate the theoretical, philosophical and political examination of why women wear make up from the fact that wearing make up day to day is neither here nor there. Wear make up, who gives a shit? The point about make up is the fact (in general) that only women wear it, that women are expected to wear it, that they are bombarded with messages all day every day saying they should wear it, that their value is tied to their beauty and they feel under pressure to enhance their beauty (and therefore their value) by using make up.Therefore it's about what make up represents as part of a patriarchal society. No one wants to stop anyone from wearing it, but what feminists want to do is take a close look at its role and what it actually means, beyond just looking good.

I read the extract in Grazia. I thought it was embarrassing - sixth form level. Just chronically under thinking. She should be cringing that she got a whole book out out what should have been a one page article in Cosmo.

No one wants to stop anyone from wearing it, but what feminists want to do is take a close look at its role and what it actually means, beyond just looking good.

And having taken that close look then what? . What are suggesting should happen?
Are you looking for some feminist Utopia where no woman will do anything to improve on nature?

Her book sounds remarkably silly and I won't be buying it. I'm not on the other hand going to analyse why I spent 2 minutes today putting on foundation and a touch of lipstick before addressing an audience of people who had paid to hear me giving a training talk.

From what I've read on this thread, I disagree with hot feminism.

But it seems to me that when I'm asked to take a close look at why most of the people who have made the effort with their appearance are female and why most of the people who don't make an effort with their appearance are male, I am supposed to come to the conclusion that it is women's behaviour that should change.

And that isn't the conclusion I am coming to.

True.

She should be called Polly Vapid. I do like this deconstruction of her journalism: spittingmadwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/look-into-our-eyes-we-still-hate-you.html

Tired, tired, tired of feminism being pared down to minor issues which won't niggle the trendy Nigels too much. Trendy Nigels wouldn't object to abortion, especially if they think a baby would tie them down, don't see some women earning more money as particularly threatening as it doesn't impact their income and rape is only something bad men in dark alleys do to strangers, so definitely not them.

The interview on women's hour made me cringe.

caring that much - enough to write a book about it - about being sexually attractive to men (in general, in a relationship or not, rather than a specific person they fancy or are in a relationship with) and justifying this - and wolf whistling and page 3 - seems like the sad result of what Caitlin Morgan's book calls Some Sexist Bullshit

OK fine. I haven't read her book and I'm not going to, but as far as I have been able to ascertain from a quick google and look at some of her quotes, Polly Vernon has very little to do with feminism and everything to do with consumption. And that's the capitalist strategy for you: capitalism takes any critical and emancipatory movement, removes all the actual political content and sells it back to you as a set of consumer choices.

Vernon is a fashion writer. The fashion industry is famous for the sexual and economic exploitation of its models, the fostering of dangerously unhealthy body images and the literally lethal exploitation of garment workers. A large number of whom are women. I would be interested to read Polly Vernon's stance on the industry that pays her and how she reconciles that with feminism. But I'm not holding my breath...

If it appears on a Kindle deal of the day for £1 I might buy it just because it looks so bad.

This has reminded me of the first issue of the ghastly and short-lived Observer Woman magazine to which Polly was a major contributor. The Observer is left leaning, so surely a great opportunity for a hard-hitting article on the gender pay gap, women's lives in the developing world, the failure to prosecute rapists etc.

But oh no, the cover article was 2000 words by Polly V on the importance of depilation.

Irene - My link upthread was from an amazing blog called Observer Women's Monthly Makes Me Spit. Worth a read.

uglyswan brilliant post.

Polly Vernon: everyone hates me because I'm thin
Everyone: no Polly it's because youre thick

I found this woman megally annoying on Radio 4. It's nice to know I'm not in a minority!

I bought this book at an airport, prepared to be annoyed as I have always found her slightly irritating.

How wrong I was, this book is funny, clever, insightful, more than a little bit silly and just very very honest. I can thoroughly recommend actually reading it as who knows, you might end up liking Polly as well.

Me? I am a fan.