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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How to live with the despair and rage?

48 replies

GoatsDoRoam · 17/05/2015 21:01

You know: the crushing rage and despair that comes from knowing that I live in a patriarchy that does not wish me well (understatement).

What can I do with my raging sense of injustice and powerlessness? Engaging in feminist activism is one option, but I fear it would just crush me even further to have this at the forefront of my mind all the time. OTOH, head in sand is no longer an option, since what has been seen cannot be unseen.

So, is it possible (and if so, how), to achieve equanimity, while being a conscious feminist living in a patriarchy?

OP posts:

Yops · 18/05/2015 13:42

Imagine a society that is not based on the exploitation and disempowerment of one class. Sounds like socialism to me, which was roundly rejected b the UK voting populace 2 weeks ago.

Morally, I agree with you Swan. But practically? I think that as a society, we are too wrapped up in our own existence and struggles to see the bigger picture. As I get older, I wonder more and more about whether people can truly be arsed to fix the problems we face day to day.

uglyswan · 18/05/2015 14:06

Yops, I'm not qualified to comment on the political system in the UK as I don't live there, but the concept of cultural hegemony, whereby the ruling class manages to impose their own value systems upon everyone else and convince society as a whole that the system we live in is the best possible and (here's the kicker) most natural of all possible worlds, goes a long way to explain why people will vote against their own interests and accept completely irrational and destructive social and economic models as the only way to live. It also prevents people from seeing how their own day to day struggles are actually partof the bigger picture. And that none of that is immutable. But that is why collective analysis and discussion are both so important: we will never realise that our own personal struggles are not just a combination of kismet and individual choices but part of a class struggle, if we do not share our experiences with members of our own class.

I'm not a socialist, btw, and I don't think socialism is the only possible alternative to exploitation, but that's a subject for another thread!

Original poster

GoatsDoRoam · 18/05/2015 14:49

Thanks, all. This is helpful.

OP posts:

MrBloomFantasies · 18/05/2015 14:51

this is genuine

Original poster

GoatsDoRoam · 18/05/2015 15:21

For most people it probably will be, Bloom, indeed. Hence the despair.

OP posts:

grimbletart · 18/05/2015 16:14

Goats: I am on a mission to cheer you up. As an elderly Mumsnetter, while some things have definitely got worse in recent years (think the sexualisation of children and pressures on young girls sexually) in general terms life has moved on immeasurably since I was young. My ideas of equality and career and just generally doing what I wanted were deemed at best unusual and at work shocking. Now they are commonplace.

Considering it has taken millennia for girls and women to be treated as anywhere near fully functioning human beings, the leap forward in the last 50 years has been incredible.

Yes, there's a long way to go and a lot still to do, but the heaviest of the spade work (in the UK) has been done.

So onward and upward - keeping going but try not to sweat the small stuff in the meantime. Just keep pushing forward.

Yops · 18/05/2015 17:12

I see your posts from time to time, grimble, and you are fairly positive about feminism and it's gains in the UK. Do you find yourself at odds with feminist friends, or do you find that your position is due to the generation that you come from?

grimbletart · 18/05/2015 17:42

Good question Yops. I always put a caveat on my views e.g. we still have way to go. So in absolute terms we are a long way from equality. But, in relative terms, if you come from a generation that started work in the 1960s then the world today is unrecognisable from that in which I started work. I did work in a career where pay was more or less equal but rising up the work ladder was like having a ball and chain tied to your ankle.

You didn't just have to be as good as a man, you had to be twice as good, so good they couldn't ignore you. Remember it was a world where you couldn't have a loan, insurance, mortgage etc. without a male guarantor (even if that guarantor earned less than you). You were constantly fighting in a job that was deemed unsuitable for a woman. There was no maternity leave (I had my first child in my three week annual holiday!). No flexible working. I could bore for England over it.

So am I at odds with feminist friends? Not really, though occasionally I have unworthy thoughts about complaints that seem a little like playing the victim card and have to give myself a mental slap and remember, as I said, it's all relative.

But when I see female heads of state, chief execs of big companies, female entrepreneurs and women who no longer see themselves as appendages to their husbands I am proud to think that my generation paid a big part (often at a big personal cost) in kick starting the revolution.

However, in some respects attitudes have gone backwards with sexual pressures on girls e.g. the feeling that girls have got to please their boyfriends - an attitude that was totally foreign to me and, as far as I recall, to my friends as well. We simply would not have had any truck with it.

Hope that answers you question.

Sorry for length of post.

Yops · 18/05/2015 22:54

Thank you, grimble. Plenty to think about in your reply, and it does add a little balance to the OP's rather depressing tone. I don't really fancy telling my daughter, as she prepares for university, 'Actually, don't bother, you are wasting your time.'

scallopsrgreat · 18/05/2015 22:59

Why would you say that to her ?

Yops · 18/05/2015 23:11

Why would I say that to her? Look at what she can expect! Quoting the OP directly, she is only in for 'crushing rage and despair.' She is in a society 'that does not wish her well (understatement'. She will develop a 'raging sense of injustice and powerlessness..... but I fear it would just crush me even further to have this at the forefront of my mind all the time.'

I don't know why you wanted me to quote all that again when it's at the top of the page. It all sounds rather hopeless for a woman making her way in the world.

Yops · 18/05/2015 23:12

Well, I bolloxed up those quotes, but hopefully you get my drift.

scallopsrgreat · 18/05/2015 23:18

So you'd choose to add to that hopelessness?

Yops · 18/05/2015 23:22

Scallops, yes I would - if I followed the OP's train of thought.

scallopsrgreat · 18/05/2015 23:23

I think the OP was looking for sympathy and a pick-me-up. So no you wouldn't.

sausageeggbacon11 · 18/05/2015 23:24

OP the way to look at things is sometimes we dont see the wood for the trees. 100 years ago we would have been complaining that blue is a girls colour (thank you QI for that bit of education) and Pink was for boys. Things can change massively over the years. The church had a massive control on society not so fr back in history but their power has waned as society has changed.

The is where a liberal like myself is looking to change on the inside because although it takes years society is not required to breakdown for it to happen. Where as with radical feminism it looks for a massive shift in beliefs by overt and destructive action (thats my interpretation). Try to help the slow change and work towards helping those who are less well off.

Yops · 18/05/2015 23:28

Well then I'll shut up and continue to read what she says, and we'll see if you are right.

LassUnparalleled · 18/05/2015 23:50

So you'd choose to add to that hopelessness?

He doesn't need to whilst there are the feminists on here relentlessly telling her how terrible it is to be a woman.

YonicScrewdriver · 18/05/2015 23:57

Probably quite unlikely Yops's daughter is reading MN at present, Lass!

YonicScrewdriver · 19/05/2015 00:00

"Sounds like socialism to me, which was roundly rejected b the UK voting populace 2 weeks ago."

Was it? I don't think Ed is a socialist!

Grimble, thanks for your posts, it's nice to hear your perspective

SenecaFalls · 19/05/2015 00:15

I agree with much of what grimble says. I am also a second waver, but American. We have indeed come a long way. But besides the sexualization issues and pressures on girls, which do indeed seem to be getting worse by the day, we have also had a huge backlash in the States against many of the advances women have made. The right wing is very anti-woman, and sometimes it seems that we are fighting the same battles we fought in the 1970s all over again.

UptoapointLordCopper · 19/05/2015 09:29

Good post grimble.

MsPoodleLover · 19/05/2015 12:49

Grimble - thank you - I could not have worded it any better about the feelings of older fems. I started work in the 70s and things were not much better than they were in the 60s. I joined the RAF in the 70s and the sexism was dire. I am sad to see that according to BBC news it is not much different now. That makes me sad but did win a few little battles.

Yops - I really do understand what you mean. I live in Doncaster and have this awful sense of loneliness as there dont seem to be any other feminists here. Dont worry, I am with you in spirit.

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