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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Racism vs sexism on America $20 bill

17 replies

TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 08:21

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/15/a-slave-abolitionist-has-no-business-being-on-the-20-bill

Just read this article about the fact Harriet Tubman won a vote on which woman should be on the new American $20 bills.

Feel a bit torn! I don't feel like I know enough about the history of slavery and oppression to dismiss the writers argument, but at the same time it feels really wrong and patriarchal to have a man say "no, no, no - you can't have that woman because I don't approve" (if he means that literally) in such a public way.

Interested in others thoughts.

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YonicScrewdriver · 16/05/2015 09:07

I don't agree with his argument.

If she was against money then fair enough. But being anti capitalist (and I'm not sure she was, she was more objecting to capitalism built on slavery, judging by the article) is not the same.

LurcioAgain · 16/05/2015 09:32

Perhaps we should resurrect the "feminism and women of colour" thread. As a white Brit, I simply don't feel qualified to comment. But I really don't think this is a women versus race let's play top trumps argument - it's a women plus race as axes of oppression. The article certainly doesn't come across to me as a piece of manspaining or a man saying "no you shall not have this woman on the 20 dollar bill, listen to me because I'm a man." I think it's a well thought out piece. There is perhaps a case for saying maybe one could still endorse his arguments and see this as the ultimate ironic up you - all those history lessons in schools which now have to explain why Harriet Tubman is on the twenty dollar bill, leading to all sorts of awkward questions about race, capitalism and women's oppression... (But, like I said, I'm a Brit, so I like irony).

TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 10:10

Yes, I am also white. But only half British. My experience of my home country is that you kind of have to demand the unjust and difficult background of your country isn't forgotten and that a lot of people have very fixed ideas about how to do it and won't listen to whatever those most disadvantaged actually want...

So yes, racism vs sexism is simplistic absolutely, but because the author - as a journalist having his thoughts read and digested and considered by potentially quite powerful influential people - doesn't seem to have considered that Tubman was also a suffragete and might have been pleased on this basis for a woman (and woc) to be so publicly recognised as well as the fact she might also take the point of view that he does. He doesn't seem to consider who voted for her or what their motivations were either.

But you're right as well that if they do put her on the $20 it will keep the debate open about (in ironic and non ways) what happened and why we need to not act like everything is solved now.

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TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 11:27

Another article: time.com/3857367/harriet-tubman-20-bill-underground-railroad/

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TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 11:32

www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/05/14/keep-harriet-tubman-and-all-women-off-the-20-bill/

And another one - very interesting, totally torn.

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Linguini · 16/05/2015 11:38

She should be on the note. It would not be "an insult to her legacy" as journalist says. Sometimes these journalists are trying too hard to find a leftfeild angle. She would be proud. (I am half American, female)

skrumle · 16/05/2015 11:45

women need to be seen - i think the arguments are fair enough in their own way but are in a different stratosphere to the approach most people would take to this decision...

pujjapin · 16/05/2015 14:23

How dare men state their opinoin on anything, it's so patriarchal for men to open their mouths. Men should all keep their mouths shut and let radical feminists decide on everything.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 17:20

That's not what anyone has said.

Did you read the article? Have you got an opinion on it?

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YonicScrewdriver · 16/05/2015 18:11

Pukka has been banned (again) TeWe. Presumably he's now doing something productive with his Saturday.

YonicScrewdriver · 16/05/2015 18:12

I agree skrumle

TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 18:19

Fair enough!

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kateemo · 16/05/2015 18:36

I get what he's saying. Abolitionists were the front line of freedom for enslaved blacks, risking life and limb to save lives and fight the cause of freedom. The commodification (past and present) of the black body by America is not understood by most Americans. On one hand, it would be amazing for Harriet Tubman to be in everyone's pocket. On the other, her presence on the very thing that served to make her body a source of income for the American economy is the conundrum that seems to have engendered this article. It's uncomfortable. Insulting and totally contrary in his mind.

As the recent event in the US have brought race relations into the nation's living room, hopefully more people are beginning to understand that biases are historical and systemic, not just purely personal feelings.

Every kid in America is supposed to have learned about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, but the history of slavery in our country is not taught well enough in every school and in in every state for that to be a given. In the amazingly expensive prep school I taught in for four years, the children were given this lesson in middle school (year 6 or thereabouts) by their teacher who thought the South should have won the Civil War (he flew the flag in his classroom) and were given a scavenger hunt game to play in which they moved a person from hideout to hideout; hardly a way to take on the topic with any serious thought. That.

It would be something for those who don't know who she is to see her in their wallet, wonder, and maybe even ask a question.

Signed,
An American living in London for seven years now.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 16/05/2015 19:02

Thanks Kateemo, I think I understand the objection a bit better now.

I suppose the problem is that there isn't anything else that is such a feature in everybody's lives as cash - so it's great for visibility and discussions. But because it's money and being viewed as property is such a key element it's difficult too.

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YonicScrewdriver · 16/05/2015 19:06

Thanks kateemo

kateemo · 16/05/2015 19:08

Yes, I agree with you. American life is a daily conundrum. An excellent new book on the topic of the American capitalism and slavery is Ed Baptist's Half the Story

Something the Guardian piece put in front of my eyes was this: the women on money in the US are Susan B. Anthony and Sacajawea--and as he says on barely circulating denominations. I think it's Harriet's turn now. And the $20 is probably the perfect note, considering the irony of her pension.

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