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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

BA trainee flight attendant sacked for not reapplying lipstick

69 replies

reddaisy · 14/04/2015 23:07

A documentary called A Very British Airline on BBC4 has started tonight and it has been following a new batch of recruits as they are trained to become flight attendants.

A woman has just been sacked for not reapplying her lipstick (which looked fine to me but the filming could have been out of sync I suppose).

A Male Trainer/Manager said: "Jodie was asked on four occasions to reapply lipstick. If a customer had seen Jodie looking the way she was presenting herself it doesn't come across as if she is taking care in her appearance which is a basic standard (for BA)."

Did anyone else see this? I realise this is my second feminism chat post today but the male trainees clearly did not have to wear make-up, I imagine they had to look smart and presentable as well but this decision just smacks of blatant discrimination to me.

OP posts:
TeiTetua · 15/04/2015 16:43

Sorry, I flew BA on Monday and was totally unobservant about the cabin crew's appearance. Would I have noticed if one of the women had no makeup on? Possibly, but not as much as if one of the men had worn some! Another point is cabin staff spend a lot of time on their feet, so I hope they can wear comfortable shoes.

It is true that airlines seem to be trying to recreate the glamour and style of a bygone age, by making the crews dress up. Perhaps it's so we'll take them seriously when they demonstrate the way to apply the facemask over your nose and mouth and breathe normally.

HermiaDream · 15/04/2015 18:32

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PuffinsAreFictitious · 15/04/2015 18:38

That's so completely not true... Unless....

Maybe my hairdresser isn't a real one. I'll have to ask her when I see her with her hair just up in a clip.

Hillingdon · 15/04/2015 18:48

I remember this from last time. She was awful, completely out of her depth and we would have all complained if she was on one of our flights....

HermiaDream · 15/04/2015 18:59

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EBearhug · 15/04/2015 20:28

I assume that hairdressers get free/cheap hairdos and possibly practice new styles on each other. If I went into a salon where they had hair that looks like mine which had split ends or roots showing, or was greasy or clearly unbrushed, I would wonder whether they'd be doing a good job with my hair. That's part of the marketing, I think. But I wouldn't be bothered if they didn't have make-up on. I think you can be clean and tidy and professionally presentable without make-up. Again, if it were a nail bar, I wouldn't expect to see unvarnished nails bitten down to the quick, and I guess likewise on make-up counters (don't wear make-up, so tend to avoid those bits of shops).

But unless you are selling make-up, it need not be part of the job. I don't have a problem with companies expecting customer-facing staff to be clean, neat and tidy, but that can be achieved without make-up, and you can demonstrate how to blow into a life jacket and use oxygen masks, shove bags into overhead lockers, hand out blankets, drinks, food and landing cards without lippy. The plane will not fall out of the sky if the cabin crew don't wear make-up. They do not become incapable of serving trays of food without mascara. It does not need to be compulsory.

StillLostAtTheStation · 15/04/2015 20:29

hairdressers also have to have their hair looking good, not just tied up in a quick ponytail. Is this also sexist? Their hairstyle doesn't affect them doing their job at all.

I would not use a hairdresser male or female whose own hair was a mess or badly cut or badly dyed or in poor condition. If they can't look after their own hair why would I spend money on letting them loose on mine?

The stylists in the salon I go to range from classic immaculate blonde bob to weird and wonderful styles and colours.

Original poster
reddaisy · 15/04/2015 20:35

I bet the hairdressers aren't told that they have to have a bob or pixie cut - they will just be told to arrive looking presentable. BA (and i imagine lots of other airlines) say that they have to have their hair in a bun.

My sister used to work at a salon (she wasn't a hairdresser) and they used to blow dry each other's hair before the salon opened.

OP posts:
Penfold007 · 15/04/2015 20:37

Reddaisy I didn't link of that, better not mention several of the women were wearing trousers as well Grin

HermiaDream · 15/04/2015 20:49

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GraysAnalogy · 15/04/2015 20:53

A woman I used to work with has just become an air hostess. They all look like models. Their uniform is vivienne westwood and it's an absolute must that they look glamorous I've been told.

It's ridiculous that to look 'respectable' they're expected to wear makeup.

Liara · 15/04/2015 21:05

I've done a lot of travelling, but it was only last year after a few years' break that it shocked me just how inappropriate the attire hostesses are in is.

Firstly, they all use nylon tights. In a plane crash, if there is fire, they are likely to melt and stick to skin. Not great for the people supposed to be making sure you are safe in that situation.

Secondly, they all wore heels. Their job involves them walking up and down a moving object, sometimes in turbulence. Heels ffs?

I would much rather have them dressed in simple cotton trousers and flat shoes/trainers. No reason they can't be smart and wearing appropriate work clothes, can there be?

scallopsrgreat · 15/04/2015 21:12

BA (and i imagine lots of other airlines) say that they have to have their hair in a bun. What about if you have short hair? Confused

Or is that so wildly out of the realms of possibility that I'm just being silly now Grin.

lucycant · 15/04/2015 21:13

The best hairdresser I have ever had, has got messy looking hair.

HermiaDream · 15/04/2015 21:29

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scallopsrgreat · 15/04/2015 21:57

Dear god! How does this help them do their job better or affect the way they perform at their job?

Only1scoop · 15/04/2015 22:01

I think she failed other areas if it's the candidate I'm thinking of.

Only1scoop · 15/04/2015 22:03

I was surprised that they all had identical buns.

meditrina · 15/04/2015 22:05

I don't know what cabin crew are expected to do in emergencies (their key role, after all).

But women in the Armed Forces all have to have their hair short or absolutely nailed out of the way in an improved style. Not necessary for every task every day, but a requirement of readiness to deal with heavy equipment, protective clothing, fire hazard etc, without coming loose and flopping in the way; so the standard all the time.

StillLostAtTheStation · 15/04/2015 22:15

the best hairdresser I have ever had, has got messy looking hair

There is artfully messy hair and badly cared for hair.

paxtecum · 16/04/2015 11:49

BA crew wear flat shoes after take off and change again for landing.

The 'why do they have to wear such smart clothes and shoes' arguement can be applied to all jobs.

There are lawyers are on Feminism threads who wear D & G suits and uncomfy shoes that cost hundreds of in order to create a 'professional' look. Is it necessary? I suppose it is is everyone else is wearing one.

Why would you boycott BA because of the cabin crew uniform?

ReallyTired · 16/04/2015 13:15

I think that there is a difference between not wearing make up with a nice clean face and wearing smugged lipstick or make up looking poor.

Showing how clueless I am, would a black woman or any other ethnic group have a problem with having their hair in a bun? What would BA do if a Siekh person applied to be a air steward?

scallopsrgreat · 16/04/2015 13:42

Most jobs 'dress code' for want of a better expression are not dictated down the how you wear your hair, unless for safety purposes.

I wouldn't boycott BA because of their cabin crew uniform but because of their expectations of their female employees and the inordinate amount of emphasis they are placing on the appearance of their staff, but specifically the women and how that adds to the objectification of women in the wider context.

...If I were going to boycott, of course. Has anyone suggested they would?

And no wearing D & G suits with uncomfortable heels shouldn't be necessary.

Original poster
reddaisy · 16/04/2015 21:20

Paxtecum, no-one has said that workers shouldn't look smart and professional - but being ordered to wear make-up objectifies women in a way that is not acceptable in the 21st Century.

The people wearing D&G clothes are doing it through choice which is right.

OP posts:
FromMeToYou · 16/04/2015 21:40

ReallyTired

What would BA do if a Siekh person applied to be a air steward?

I seem to remember there was a sikh man a few years ago who had the sikh topknot (sorry don't know the correct term) who had to prove he could take the head cloth off in an emergency, but they sacked him because he refused to take it off during a practice session. Maybe I've not got the detais right but I'm sure that's more or less what happened. Anyone else remember?