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What do I you think about the way women are portrayed in Game of Thrones?

126 replies

Millie3030 · 13/04/2015 22:10

As the title says really, my husband watches it and loves it, but it annoys me, it seems like male titilation for me, half naked women, lots of prostitues, sex scenes and murder. But the main character is female and she seems a strong female character, and there are also other strong female characters in it.

What are your thoughts?

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SpinDoctorOfAethelred · 17/04/2015 21:08

almomd

I get the impression you're offended on behalf of the actor who plays Brienne? Sorry if I've misunderstood.

As I said before, I haven't watched the TV series. I have, however, read all the books in ASOIAF, and it's very heavily emphasised in them that Brienne is ugly. She's forced to wear women's clothing at one point, and feels humiliated.

SpinDoctorOfAethelred · 17/04/2015 21:13

almond
Sorry for the typo.

Anyway, how fascinating that in the TV version, they picked a beautiful woman to play Brienne, a woman with a sword. Not an unattractive woman to be literally true to the books, or a tall woman of unexceptional appearance (so we could assume that Brienne was too hard on herself, or that people simply perceived her as uglier than she was on account of the fact she did shocking things like swordplay), but a beautiful one.

Fantasy fiction: the women knights have to be beautiful, don't they? Is it to emphasise they're still women, in case we get confused by the swords?

almondcakes · 17/04/2015 21:48

I'm not offended.

I've never read the books but like the way the women have been characterised on the show, and the huge number of female characters.

I like that Brianne is both tall and beautiful. There are very few tall female actors (in fact Hollywood in general is full of tiny men and women), and it seems quite rare to have a tall woman who is also beautiful and interesting.

She is still mocked in the tv show for being unfeminine.

CrispyFern · 17/04/2015 22:08

Theblonde2000, I read your blog and I have to say I love Mad Men / I don't watch GOT because I think it's misogynistic.

Mad Men is good! Good I tell you!

JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/04/2015 22:18

I agree that the actress who plays Brienne is very beautiful.

I do feel the 'complex' thing is a bit tricky. Yes, granted, not all of the women characters are cardboard cutouts. But, IMO, most of them are no more or less complex than other women in other TV shows.

SpinDoctorOfAethelred · 17/04/2015 22:36

Bookwise, he definitely doesn't get the Most Richly-Rounded Women Characters award.

I'm not sure who actually does (although I would be absolutely delighted to carry out the preliminary shortlisting if anyone's willing to fund my reading research) but it isn't Martin.

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Millie3030 · 17/04/2015 23:31

Is Brianne the only female in the show that has kept all her clothes on?

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JeanneDeMontbaston · 17/04/2015 23:41

Erm ... except for the naked scene in the bath, right?

Arya has kept her clothes on - granted she's a child, but given GRRM you never know. And, actually, I don't remember seeing Catelyn stripping off but I could be forgetting bits.

Hakluyt · 17/04/2015 23:52

I have read, and re-read the whole of ASOIAF many times. I'm gonna say probably 10 times so far."

Really?? You do know there are lots of books in the world, don't you?

SpinDoctorOfAethelred · 18/04/2015 00:24

Everyone re-reads books. I don't think it's a sign of literary deprivation. Especially in a lengthy series published over a long timeframe. You end up having to re-read the first ones just to know what's going on. Which would go doubly so for Martin's ASOIAF!

I've read one particular oxford reading tree book ten times since January, btw. The number of books I've read ten times or over since 1996 will be a high number. Grin

JeanneDeMontbaston · 18/04/2015 00:53

I am a re-reader too. I've re-read Harry Potter oh, 20-30 times? Not because it's great, but because it's there, and I am bored and struggle to find things to read.

If there are lots of books in the world, I wish someone would tell me what to read. I might need a thread for it.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 18/04/2015 01:15

I love GOT if anything the violence is more troubling than the nudity (which has calmed down in later seasons). The amazing characters and depth of detail and plot is enough to make up for the high boob / body count... I see rounded characterization not just attractive women, Arya alone is worth watching the series for.

I understand the misgivings but I cannot condemn the work it is just too good.

almondcakes · 18/04/2015 01:18

Jeanne, I was going to say the same about tv!

I would like someone to recommend me a tv show. It doesn't have to be particularly feminist, just less bad than Game of Thrones.

takemeuptheeiffeltower · 18/04/2015 01:35

I have yet to see a naked Penis.

GOT is sexist. End Of.

takemeuptheeiffeltower · 18/04/2015 01:39

Count the number of times you have seen minge and boobs.
Count the number of times you have seen Penis.

The boobage/minge count outweighs the Penis count. HEAVILY.

So therefore,

Game of Thrones is disgustingLY SEXIST.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 18/04/2015 01:56

almond - well, I re-watch West Wing, though that's sexist in a different way.

SpinDoctorOfAethelred · 18/04/2015 02:40

Jeanne, have you already read Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion series? Similar length to ASOIAF, lots of female and male characters, and I loved how side characters from the beginning were fleshed out through the series. It was written over a very, very, very long period, and Moon became a better writer (imo) so the final books are much better than the first three. I felt that all the characters in the series were people, which was emphasised by how the books turned to focus on each in turn.

Her Vatta's War series was good too; set in a completely different time period and universe but still great.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 18/04/2015 07:45

takeme do you really think it's that simple? For a start women have two breasts and one vulva while men have one penis. So women have three times as many parts which are considered culturally sexual.
Secondly all television networks require editorial justification for each occasion of nudity and there is a sliding scale. Breasts are easier to get through the compliance procedure than a vulva or a penis, as you would expect. Just as it's much more difficult to difficult use of the word 'cunt' than use of the word 'shit'.

So it really isn't as simple as just counting them.

VenetiaFleetwood · 18/04/2015 07:56

I am divided on this and I'm a fan of the TV series. On the one hand yes, there is a lot of gratuitous nudity but on the other there are several extremely complex female characters, something that's missing in a lot of other shows. I've read all the books and found GRRM's writing of women to be a bit shallow - the TV series has expanded on this wonderfully, namely the characters of Catelyn (cruel and annoying in the books) and especially Cersei who is stupid and one-dimensional in the books but thanks to the series' writers and Lena Headey is now wonderfully complex and much more than just a standard villain. I would say that even Ros teh prostitute who started off just as an excuse for some nudity developed into a very sympathetic character.

Having said that, there are also some very gruesome scenes just for the sake of it which aren't in the books - Ros's murder, the rape scenes in Craster's keep, and, having seen the first four episodes, (I guess now is the time to shout SPOILER ALERT) what is bound to be the upcoming brutalisation of Sansa.

So yeah, still divided on this and not sure I've achieved any great insight with this post!

maliaki · 18/04/2015 19:43

Cersei hasn't been naked yet, but she will be- though they weren't allowed to film anything like that in Croatia so they'd have to have done elsewhere. I remember watching a behind the scenes or something like that and the reason she was always fully covered in her sex scenes at the beginning of the first season was because she was pregnant (so they had to hide the bump) and the rape scene was clothes on for both, I presume that means the actress is open to it for future episodes.

I love GOT, sometimes I eyeroll at all the female nudity which just seems unneeded. I do hide from a lot of the violence too though, I'm pretty wussy the older I get. Danny and Cersei and Ayra are very strong characters and Sansa's come a long way from a protected naive child to a strong, manipulative (in a good way) woman.

I haven't read the books, for those that have are they better/worse then the series? Worth a read?

Cooroo · 19/04/2015 09:37

I'm another who loves the series in spite of all the things said above! Actually Jaime and Brienne in the bath was one of my favourite scenes - totally unsexualised, but 2 people naked sharing thoughts and memories they wouldn't express in the light of day with their armour on. (And why do so many people call her Brianna?)

Cooroo · 19/04/2015 09:38

Ps Maliaki I think you'd enjoy the books. Much more depth (although some characters better developed on TV). Less graphic sex (iirc).

maliaki · 19/04/2015 10:13

Thanks Cooroo, I'll have a read of them next week :)

lagartaroja · 20/04/2015 16:37

Disclaimer... I have only skimmed the thread as I am only 4 episodes into Series 1.

Yes, the gratuitous nudity is really really bothering me but I'm finding when the men talk they seem to continually refer to women in a derogatory way. It's all, 'Shagging. Whores. Bitches. Grrrrrrr, I'm so virile.'

It's so misogynistic. I'm really struggling to enjoy it. DP has said the same.

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Millie3030 · 20/04/2015 18:07

takeme I'm with you on that it is sexist, it portrays women as heavily sexualised and the excess of it seems to be for titilations to attract male viewers and it's working sigh

guybrush why are breasts easier to get through the compliance procedure more than a vulva or penis? Do you not think that shows the sexism itself. Breasts are private parts of our body but fine to get out because men like them, a penis is a private part of mens body but isn't shown because?.....

lagartaroja I completely agree it's misogynistic, and how great that your DH agrees! The women are either sexualised or masculine and childlike. What stereotypically beautiful woman on that show hasnt exposed her breasts or full frontal?

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