Girls and outdoor activities. Where am I going wrong?

[BarbarianMum]

Would really appreciate some advice.

I work for a charity that (amongst other things) promotes outdoor play for children. As part of this we run structured outdoor sessions during school holidays.

Sessions for the under 8s have proved really popular, so we have started some for the 8-13 age group. These are also proving really popular but (and this is the problem for me) overwhelming they are attended by boys only (maybe 80%+). The Junior sessions attract equal numbers of either sex.

So what is going on here. The sessions involve a good deal of bush craft type activity (fire making/den building), but also wildlife type stuff (making bat boxes and bird feeders, minibeast hunts, tracks and signs), plus other stuff like geocaching, orienteering and woodlandy arts and crafts. All stuff that I've always considered as pretty unisex.

We are always careful to advertise in a gender neutral way (images of both boys and girls taking part are used), primary colours. The leaders are both male and female.

Feedback from the girls and their parents who do come is very positive and we are careful to ensure that everyone gets to participate fully (so no chance of girls being pushed to the back).

So why am I not attracting more girls? Or rather, why am I not attracting more parents of girls, as the decision to book on sessions is obviously very parent led? Any thoughts, suggestions or opinions welcome. I only have boys and sometimes worry that I am fundamentally wrong about what girls will like (I would have loved something like this as a child but I was a 'tomboy' whose ended up in an outdoorsy job so maybe I'm not representative).

What kind of toys/activities did your boys enjoy?

They enjoy all the things listed above.

I would have loved something like this as a child of that age, but it wouldn't have been presented to me as an option by my parents, so I'm sure you're right about making sure the message that it's a fun activity for girls too gets to them. I don't know very much about this or the possibilities available to you, but I'm wondering whether you have any involvement in schools, so perhaps if there were a taster session or similar where girls would find out about it and then ask their parents (so there was more awareness among girls that it was available)?

Can you advertise to brownies/guides? Push the arts and crafts side a bit more?

There are very few activities aimed at boys that aren't specifically sport- or, more realistically, football related. So you probably have a ready made catchment of non footbally boy families. Wheras girls go to dance and gym and drama- theoretically these are all available to boys too, but in reality........your pool of girls with free time will be smaller. Sad but true.

I have a 12 year old daughter (and a 8 year old son) who would be interested in your course but we live in an area where children who go to secondary school at 11 so a course with primary schoolchildren would be a turnoff for my daughter, Do you get boys at both ends of the age spectrum?

My dd would love to attend your activities! Where are you?
I actively brainwash encourage my dc to question why certain activities should only be for boys or for girls.

I think the problem you have is the parents not choosing these activities for girls. Have you tried gendered marketing or marketing and/or activities aimed specifically at girls? Somewhat goes against my convictions, but if people will only buy pink, you have to tint your stuff pink, IYSWIM?

Advertising through Guides/Brownies is a good idea, quite a few of the girls who do come to us are already in Guides/Brownies and have enjoyed outdoor things through that.

We already advertise through the education service.

That's an interesting take on it Haklut. Quite a few of the boys we get are specifically brought by their parents to get them away from the X-box. Maybe girls of this age are less computer obsessed and therefore their parents may feel less pressured to find alternative activities.

Although we include environmental art in sessions we haven't pushed that in the advertising, so that might work.

The boys we attract are generally aged bw 8 and 10, but we attract girls from across the age range. Just not very many of them.

Pippi every fibre in my being cries out against giving things a pink tint for girls But a girls only session might be a good idea. We have run them for teenagers in the past, just hoped that their wasn't the need with such young children.

I'm actually really surprised. When dd was younger we went on two of the Field Study Council family holidays, which are pretty similar in tone (nature stuff like you've described plus climbing / abseiling etc), and while there were some boys, I'd say it was 70% girls.

I also think that if you ran a course like that here, you'd get lots of girls, maybe more than boys even. I have to say though that my (just) 13 yr old dd wouldn't go to a session with that age range, but she would have been very keen up to end primary.

As well as brownies, are there Woodcraft Folk near you, I bet dc who go to that would love your sessions.

Have you asked the ones who are attending why they are attending? Have you found some girls who don't attend what puts them off? Same with parents?

I don't know about pink... perhaps "pink publicity" would reach your target audience and make your offer more relevant to them?

I've done brownies and guides for years and can tell you that girls overwhelmingly like animals and want to be vets.
So anything you can do to push the animal side will go down well. Maybe meeting rescued wild animals at a shelter? Learning how they are affected by protection or destruction of their habitat.

I think it's the gender thing in parents heads again. Girls will be sent to ballet and drama, boys to football or outdoor activities. It is very, very difficult to get parents to change their thinking ime. They don't want little suzie being the only girl amongst all those nasty boys, and what if her friends pick on her for doing "boy" stuff.

Many of 9 year old dd's friends are already spending days having "quality time" with mum- shopping, nails, lunch out, while brothers spend the day with dad doing boy stuff.

Could you offer local brownies/guides sessions? Get whole groups of girls in. Or half term courses are always good. Three hours cheap childcare always brings them in.

I think Hak's point is a really good one. I have a sport-hating boy and he'd love that course. My dd would also love it and I/she would have no issues with signing her up (in fact we're all doing a woodcarving class this week)
As far as mine are concerned, if you make a big deal of toasting marshmallows over a fire, they'd be begging me to sign them up.

I agree in researching the why the children and parents wanted to do the course, and maybe some random others for ideas on why people didn't.

Thank you. Plenty of food for thought but it's nice to know that it could work/works in other places. Won't get downhearted yet.

Knowing what's going on with your Guides/Brownies and Scouts/Cubs could be useful.

If there is a thriving Guides etc but no Scouts, then there will be a surplus of boys looking for outdoorsy stuff but the girls will only be the handful that love that aspect and want to do more. And they're such well known organisations, it's what parents will think of first.

Can you get parental feedback on how they heard of you and what they like most? (Steel yourself as you may also get a gripe list, as it's also quite important to get feedback from those who drop out).

Word of mouth is going to be the best way of attracting more. Could you run a "bring a friend" event (which could be followed by a free taster of a typical session, before paying to sign up properly). I know that's potentially quite a lot of loss-leader effort, but it might be worth it to get on the radar IYSWIM

this does sound like such good fun while i'm stuck in my stuffy office!

I have a boy and a girl and I think it is a combination of Hakluyt and Takver's post.

DD at that age already did a range of activities which you would be competing against.

Things like abseiling and climbing 'compete' well against dance and drama, because they improve specific skills and generally have to be taught by someone who really knows what they are doing.

I wouldn't pick your course for DD from what you have said because it doesn't sound like a specific skill would be gained. I'm wary of arts and crafts tacked on to other activities because I would worry if they were really going to be taught any art skills - how to draw, paint, bookbind etc or if they were just going to glue stuff together supervised by someone with no art qualification. That is no criticism of you, just that many people who ask for money from parents to do art with kids don't know anything about art, so it would make me wary.

DS I might have sent at that age as there are less boys' activities available that aren't throwing or kicking balls around (which we have zero time for).

I also think girls hit puberty earlier and 12-13 year old girls are less keen to hang around with nine year olds.

My girls get taken to outdoor den building type things by their holiday club, are there any local holiday clubs you can contact to build up custom with?
Brownies etc good idea
Youth club
Leaflets in book bags at local schools
Do you do birthday parties, ny dd went to a great one in the woods sawing things, making things, cooking in campfire etc.
What does your marketing look like?
Girls day good idea

I think pp has a good point, thirteen year old girls may not want to do ' kids' activities as they think they are grown up. can you reposition slightly? Guides 'wellies and wristbands' festival is sold out for this year, have a look at that for ideas? As that is for similar age group and girls must love it for it to be sold out already

I think it's a combination of the factors mentioned. My DD loved this sort of stuff when she was in primary school (she did some 'bush craft' type things and also belonged to a wildlife trust Watch group). But then she got into watersports and that pretty much took over her available time.

Her DofE volunteering is at a Wildlife Trust reserve - not sure if it's 13 or 14 and up but they do real stuff not playing - though they usually finish with toasting marshmallows. I think there's a fairly even gender divide with this. Which makes me wonder a bit whether for secondary age - especially for the girls who do tend to mature sooner, but I think would be fine for boys too - whether you could make it less 'play' and more real - the bird-box type things could fit into that. The older group could be involved in making things for the younger ones perhaps.

Advertise through Brownies and Guides but don't push the arts and crafts side! Guiding is different from Scouting not because of the different activities but because it has no boys. Some Guiding groups choose to be more craft based (it's supposed to be the girls' choice but sometimes it's the leaders')

And DON'T do the pink stereotyped publicity.

It is true that girls do more extracurricular activities (there are more girls in Guiding than there are children of both genders in Scouting, though that may also be partly down to more women being prepared to volunteer, it's rare to have a female-leader-only Scout group, so the groups would tend to struggle more for leaders). This may be partly availability but also that girls are socialised into joining things and into sticking with groups through difficult patches.

I'd be holding girl-only sessions too. One of the lessons of Guiding is that girls love to do exactly the same things that Scouts do only without boys.

It is quite a wide age range as PP have said.

Yes, I would not go down the pink route. There is an age for being into pink. Pink is strongly marketed towards the birth - 8 age range. Older girls often see it as babyish.

i was just wondering whether it was something that could be linked up with DofE if it isn't already. if not for the voluntary aspect, for the skills part if it fit in with the criteria