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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

The boat race and equality

141 replies

businesshoursareover · 12/04/2015 11:58

What's your opinion on this?

www.bbc.com/sport/0/rowing/32130222

How is it equality if women are still not allowed to race together with the men or, even better, take part in the men's team trials and get rid of gender segregation all together by having a single race for everyone?

Keeping them separated and having the women's race first as some sort of ''appetizer'' before the men take part in the ''main event'' only helps encourage the stereotype that women are inferior at sports and how they're just ''for the boys''.

OP posts:

Maryz · 12/04/2015 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaveMum · 12/04/2015 20:03

Just to be a pedant (because it's my area of expertise ), racehorses are only handicapped in a race if the conditions of the race call for it. Every horse is given a handicap mark so that it can be ranked in terms of ability with its peers, but they will only carry different weights in a set handicap race, like the National.

For example in the Derby all horses carry the same weight - 9 stone. That is unless there is a filly running, in which case she carries 3lb less as part of the fillies sex allowance.

There's also a "weight for age" allowance which allows younger horses to carry less weight than their older, stronger rivals.

MoreBeta · 12/04/2015 20:10

Maryz - rowing is indeed a great sport and I must say at DSs school the boy and girl rowers are very much in a 'joint' team with the same resources and coaches.

Its the only sport where there is that degree of integration in the school.

ChunkyPickle · 12/04/2015 20:15

God, I love this idea of carrying weight categories into other sports. DP watches a lot of MMA, so obviously I watch some too, and the difference in fighting between the heavy weights and the bantams is huge. Both can be just as good as the other. I think many sports could actually benefit from a bit of streaming!

Maryz · 12/04/2015 20:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoreBeta · 12/04/2015 20:45

Maryz* - you are a natural fit for crown green bowling or croquet!

I have similar issues - bell ringing is as near to sport as I get nowadays.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 12/04/2015 20:54

Olympic bell ringing. I would go for that.

And maryz, lightweight rowing is for people who like their men to have their ribs showing.

(This is not a letchy comment. I've seen lightweight rowers in lycra and I found the experience disturbing. It discipline to get your weight down like that, clearly.)

rosy71 · 12/04/2015 22:36

This implies that men racing are better than women racing and that, to be any good, women must perform like men.

In fact, believe it or not, men & women are not physiologically the same. That doesn't mean that, because men are faster, women shouldn't be allowed to compete. Men have more testosterone than women. I don't see anyone arguing that this makes them faster therefore they shouldn't be allowed to take part because it's not equal.

I don't see why anyone shouldn't be allowed to take part in a sport if they want to, whether they are good at it or not. Only a very few people will make it to the top levels but that doesn't mean they should be the only ones competing. I see that there were also men's and women's reserve boat races taking place yesterday. The members of those crews were slower but the races still took place. In the Olympic Games there are heats for many races which eliminate slower competitors before the finals. Should they not happen? Often the men who are knocked out at that stage are slower than the women who end up winning.

I think the issue is more that the women's boat race has been taking place since 1927 but has been on a different day form the men's & not televised. I only discovered it had previously existed after reading the link. I think that tells us that there has been unequal treatment within the sport, favouring the men. Women's football has a similar history.

rosy71 · 12/04/2015 22:36

In the Olympic Games there are heats for many races which eliminate slower competitors before the finals.

I'm talking about track & field athletics here.

scallopsrgreat · 12/04/2015 22:53

Oh I'm so glad disappointed at missing businesshours pontification on how mens sport is the only sport we should watch coz muscles or summat. Mind you it saved my blood pressure and allowed me to drink more wine.

Couple of points:

This move does not signify equality between the sexes in rowing (not that I suspect many of you think that but the media seems to think the equality war is won ). I wish. There are plenty of men in rowing with attitudes like businesshours. There hasn't been a female coach in any of the international squads (bar juniors and under 23s) in over 10 yrs. There is no parity of events at the Olympics. A full men's squad would consist of 28 rowers/coxes and a women's squad would consist of 20 rowers/coxes. And funding may be equal at international level (mainly due to the lottery) but certainly not at University/Club level. Hence why Helen Morrissey insisted on this move with her sponsorship deal. And that's only off the top of my head.

Lightweight rowing is indeed disturbing, Jeanne, for both men and women. In a sport I love I find it impossible difficult to condone. Lightweight women can go for months without periods for example. Laxatives are often used.

And perhaps most importantly, Oxford women yesterday were outstanding. Truly phenomenal display of rowing. Brilliant to watch. Well done all the women in the race.

P.S. I actually agreed with MoreBeta probably for the first time ever. Wonders will never cease!

Anniegetyourgun · 13/04/2015 15:16

Still waiting for proof of the assertion that female competitors have poorer endurance and a greater propensity to injury. I think he made that bit up.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 13/04/2015 15:19

Hmmm, but he's not a troll.....

scallopsrgreat · 13/04/2015 17:13

"Still waiting for proof of the assertion that female competitors have poorer endurance and a greater propensity to injury." Oh I missed that bit! Bless him!

We all faint when we cross the finish line dontcha know. That's how we injure ourselves.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 13/04/2015 17:15

So, it's not because we have to wear skirts all the time and get our knees all muddy then?

Knew I was doing it wrong...

uglyswan · 13/04/2015 18:22

Aw maaaaan, did I miss this discussion? OP, I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that this question was meant in good faith: "But would you agree that men and women of the same weight should box against each other?"
so I thought I'd just share my own personal boxing experience. I used to spar against men all the time (there just weren't enough women boxers to go around) and would have had no problem at all fighting a man in my weight class. But because of male/female weight differences, the only men in my weight class were either tiny or teenage boys. So mixed boxing would most likely give women an unfair advantage - no equality there, I'm afraid.

drinkscabinet · 14/04/2015 23:28

Things might not yet be equal but televising it is so useful, the DDs were so inspired by Jess Ennis during the Olympics and this fufils the same role model role. 20 minutes of 'look how strong they are and how hard they are working' while cheering on Oxford was 'feminist bombing' in this house. We didn't bother watching the men's race...

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