The difference between equality and feminism

[itsazoohere]

My 14yr old dd asked me this. I said that (after thinking) that I thought they were similar, but fighting for equality was wanting equal rights for everyone irrelevant of gender, race or creed, but that feminism was solely about equality for women. She then told me that I was wrong, as the word feminist meant 'gender' in Latin-they had talked about it in class.
Was I wrong? How could I explain it better?

Equality is a concept, feminism is a philosophy or movement. Feminism as a philosophy strives for equality as a concept, for both men and women.
Feminism seeks to liberate both men and women from restrictive gender expectations.

I would argue that feminism is fighting for equality through the advocation of women and womens rights.

I think she must have got confused about the Latin.

'femina' is Latin for woman. It doesn't mean 'gender' (and in any case I don't think the Romans had a concept for gender the way we do).

I think the difference is, equality is a state or a practice that can be applied to anything - weights and measures, justice, whatever. Feminism is an ideology, that no one deserves to be treated unequally based on gender.

Thank you. I think I strived to say something like that, but I lacked the knowledge, so slightly fobbed her off (whilst promising to get her a better answer from mumsnet later).
You explained it beautifully, Ehric.

Yes, and gender's Latin stem is genus. Not sure where she got the feminism/Latin/gender from.

It worries me, Jeanne, that this was a conversation in class started by her, but led by her teacher. He is very 'old school', so I have a feeling that his interpretation of the word feminism may not be what yours or mine would be. My DD definitely said that the word feminism shouldn't be just applied to women (based on her teacher's opinion). There are only four kids in the class, so lots of time for debate.

Also that words change their meaning and Roman roots aren't always relevant. And theres often another root, for example there are a lot of words which come from French roots in English, but could feasibly have Latin roots.

I know I should be adding examples here but am on the prosecco

She's doing Latin GCSE-as did I, but I can't remember a thing.

Well, if he's old school he should really know his Latin better than that!

It makes absolutely no sense.

As truffle says, the word we get 'gender' from is 'genus', but that means type or species or family - it's a categorisational word.

I wouldn't swear to it, but I can't see 'feminism' as a word being much older than the nineteenth century, and I'm really sure it doesn't refer to both genders.

Feminism is a female led movement that can and does encompass male endeavours in the pursuit of gender equality for men and women.

Right, will be showing her this in the morning-and possibly (although she will threaten to disown me) her Latin teacher.
I knew that couldn't be right!
But I was still a little stumped about equality vs feminism, thank you all for clarifying it for me.

Was the teacher perhaps saying that men can be feminists and got it garbled or was unclear?

I think the word was first coined in French and then made its way into English in the 19th century.

but fighting for equality was wanting equal rights for everyone

But it isn't.

My first equality and diversity class always asks students to define equality and this is more or less what they say.

So then I ask them (they are VI formers) if they can drive and get a mixed bad of yes/no/learning/not old enough I'm 16

So we talk about being able to drive at 16/17in the UK, 18 in most of the EU and 16 in most of the US.

We usually agree that 10 year olds driving would not be sensible because they may not reach the pedals and they are not usually sensible enough but the actual age for driving is decided by each society that allows cars (some channel islands don't) and allows people to learn to drive.

Then we talk about 16 year olds driving, if you get higher rate mobility DLA you can learn to drive at 16 - why do we do that?

Then we go on to look at prisoners, why do we put people in prison, is that treating people equally?

Education (this is BTEC class most students go in to nursing with some doing other courses) have any of them applied to oxbridge? Why? Could they do a medical degree? Why? Is this equality? Is it fair?

Equality in a society means valuing and celebrating diversity, it means allowing special parking spots for people with disabilities and small children because they need them and allowing pregnant women time off work for ante natal appointments. It's not equality by your daughter's definition that women get this time as paid leave and men don't.

Back in the 1970s many women were forced to leave work when they were pregnant (if they hadn't left when they got married) and that was legal. It was treating men and women the same. Get pregnant = lose your job but was it fair? Was it right?

Feminism still strives for equality between men and women, but feminism recognises that men and women aren't starting from the same place. Feminism recognises that women for centuries have been denied rights, recognition and opportunity solely because of their gender, and there are therefore many specific issues that need to be addressed to reach a place of equality.

Sashh, I don't think the OP has said, or thinks, that equal rights means treating people the exact same way.

She is asking whether feminism is about equal rights for women or equal rights for people more generally.

And equality does not mean celebrating a diverse society. Equality and diversity are two different things. That is why it is called Equality and Diversity.

OP, I would say that feminism is about women's rights. Some feminists mean the rights of women compared to those of men, and some mean women's liberation more generally, believing that the approach to rights developed for and by men is inadequate and not a good model to compare women's rights to.

I suggest copying almondcakes's last paragraph and sending it to the teacher (with your DD's agreement of course). Well said.

I am very unimpressed with the teacher's grasp of Latin.

'Feminist' was coined in the 1800s, I think around the middle of the century, from 'feminine', which (I won't bore you with the finer details) came from Latin femina, meaning 'woman, female'. But there is no earlier root meaning 'gender'. It came from a root meaning 'breastfeed, suckle'. So really, it meant "the one who breastfeeds" to start with. It isn't even cognate with a word meaning 'gender'. (although it is, interestingly, cognate with a word meaning 'happy'!)

Sashh, I don't think the OP has said, or thinks, that equal rights means treating people the exact same way.

Lol I realise that, I went off on one a bit from my last class I think - sorry all

Sashh, no, I'm sorry. Your post was really interesting, and I've already used part of it in talking to DD.

There's loads on google. This is the first link,

www.theguardian.com/careers/transgender-issues-in-the-workplace

Wrong thread, sorry!

www.theguardian.com/careers/transgender-issues-in-the-workplace

Loads of google links

I'm unimpressed with the teacher's grasp of etymology.

Chief and achieve both share a Latin root, but neither are particularly relevant if what you are discussing is a chef (again same Latin root).