Criticism of female politicians.

[HangingInAGruffaloStance]

Being Scottish, I am enjoying having a female first minister (Nicola Sturgeon) and a 50/50 gender split cabinet. One of the opposition leaders (Ruth Davidson- Tory) is not only female but also gay and out. Until recently Labour also had a female leader. So lots positive in Scottish politics. When my DD (3.5) asked who NS is (she was on tv) I did enjoy telling her she is "the boss".

I am interested in how NS is scrutinised. She isn't very glamorous and looks like she has hard to manage hair, this seems to get a lot of attention. She is a 44yo former solicitor and most senior politician in Scotland but gets referred to as a "wee lassie". NS also doesn't have kids, which isn't referred to a lot, but does get examined more than it might be for a male politician. For example Lorraine Kelly questioned her sympathetically about facing up to sexism in politics, then quizzed her about not having kids.

Don't know what my point is, but interested in others views/observations.

I have come across one male making comments about NS's appearance and I give him short shrift -we are both anti SNP so he probably thought I'd be up to slagging her off!

Haven't heard any women comment apart from (a lot!) saying how positive it is to have a woman First Minister.

The issue of not having kids did come up in the referendum in relation to Alex Salmond too. A major part of my thinking was about future concrete prospects for my kids over their lifetime versus nationalist ideals, so I did think it was understandable that others mentioned it in that context. Didn't see Lorraine.

I dislike Sturgeon and all she stands for so much I probably won't give a rational answer.

It annoys me that she is referred to as a lawyer or former lawyer when as far as I'm aware her working experience was a very short time in Govan Law Centre.

She is not an attractive woman. I know that should not matter but she tries so hard and looks as if she's trying so hard having gone through endless make overs. She looks contrived in a way Ruth Davidson doesn't.

Her behaviour after the referendum was appalling, banging on about people being too scared to vote yes.

I have a lot of time for Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale and even Wendy Alexander. Sturgeon is just the nat left wing version of Thatcher. She seems utterly incapable of seeing any other point of view.

We are on feminist chat here, aren't we? I wasn't really wanting to get into a chat about politics. I have reservations about all politicians, but do think that having women in positions of genuine influence is positive for society, and particularly girls/young women. I don't likewise Ruth Davidson stands for politically, but welcome her getting on within as a woman in politics just as much as I do Nicola Sturgeon.

I've seen a lot of negative comments on Nicola sturgeon's appearance, but maybe my fault for going on the Daily Mail website!

Shall I list the unattractive males in politics?

It would take too long and anyway I'm no oil painting myself.

Clean and tidy is fine by me.

That would be a long list!

I'm just pondering if females in politics get more negative scrutiny of their appearance and other irrelevant stuff. I think they do.

I mean, Jim Murphy isn't exactly hot and is a massive self important pain in the arse but I've never seen any coverage or social comment on his appearance, clothes or personal life. But I know all about Nicola Sturgeon's helmet hair, highlights, weight loss, age, LK Bennett shoes, new dress/jacket combo, husband's job, feelings about being an aunt when childless etc etc etc etc.

Can't stand her and what she stands for, I switch off the TV when she comes on, what she looks like matters not a jot to me.

Normally I would say its a good thing to see women in politics , but I just don't like their politics. Same with that awful Warsi woman.

The politics is more important then the fact that they are women or what they look like.

YY the carping on about female politicians' appearances is infuriating. Who cares how they do their hair or what they wear? No one does when it's a man.
I'm also not sure why it's a problem to call NS a former lawyer because she used to work as a lawyer .
As an aside, Douglas Alexander is often referred to as "Wee Dougie", and I assumed it was affectionate rather than diminutive

Still lost

She studied law for 4 years, did a 1 year pg diploma then worked as a solicitor for 6 years.

As to the OP re: a feminist chat about misogyny in politics, it is alive and kicking.

Having a female fm has and will improve things.

But yes women in politics are under greater scrutiny than their male counterparts. It's still common for female candidates to be quizzed on their marital and parental status. They can't win- if they are sahms they are considered 'unprofessional' if they have a career they are heartless.

One of the most stark differences between male & female politicians is that most of the men are fathers whilst most of the women aren't.

And this can't just be a childcare issue as politicians are usually over childbearing age!

Ed Miliband is often called "weird looking". And got ridiculed for eating a bacon sandwich weirdly.
Farage is often compared to a Labrador or looking like a frog.A weird frog.

I think females in politics are probably more scrutinised for their looks though, because basically any female is.

I applaud women in politics, but unfortunately a woman in politics is still a politician, i.e a liar and likely to have sociopathic tendencies.

My local mp is Stella Greasy, who does a fair job but still counts Alistair Campbell as peer.

My own experience is I have myself commented on JIm Murphy's appearance and how it might be affected by him being "practically vegan"!

I knew nothing of the detail you know about N Sturgeon. (Step away from DM comments!)

I do remember a joke on (I think) "Only an Excuse " about her hair looking like a Bay City Roller but that was years ago. That show also makes the same snide joke about women politicians being off getting bargains at TKMaxx.

Ask yourself : Does Angela Merkel give a damn about crappy "banter"? I hope not!

I know Angela Merkel is the receiving end! and probably weathers it fine.

But it says something negative about society, and sends a shitty message to young girls "it doesn't matter how much you achieve, people will still care where your shoes are from or how fuckable you are".

I know, so when I hear such nonsense I challenge it as well as I can, whatever the politics involved.

Angela Merkel is a great role model. I can't imagine a Germany without her.

OP - as long as you or others go on DM site and click on links to any articles their authors will carry on writing what they are paid for.

I know nothing of comments made by media about NS looks and family status.

Did you complain anywhere that Lorraine questioned NS about her childlesness? That would be sensible thing to do IMHO.

There was commentary about Mrs Thatcher's appearance, but not much and heavily outweighed by her actions. Ditto Castle.

Though at around the same time, Michael Foot was being roundly pilloried for his appearance.

To be clear my main dislike of Sturgeon is her extreme nationalist policies, her contempt for the democratic process which involved her pouring scorn on the 55% who voted against independence, the fact she appears to have no interest in anything other than politics (have never heard her express any interest in the arts for example)

As for comments about her appearance she gets that because she so obviously tries so hard and still looks awful. Ruth Davidson just gets on with being herself.

And what is it with MN and The Daily Mail ? Do you all go on there hoping to be offended? It's a terrible newspaper - why keep looking at it?

I agree OP. It's crap.

Yes Gruffalo, women in politics and every other area of public life get judged about their appearance in ways men don't. Some examples might include:

The Australian news anchors, the woman constantly getting shit for her dress sense while the man wore the same suit for a year while no one noticed.

Ann Widdecombe and the constant references to her being a virgin and having no sense of style. Couldn't stand her politics, but she is by all accounts a perfectly nice person.

The whole "Blair's babes" bullshit.

and on and on.

It's also been interesting watching the NS smear campaign going on in the Tory press as well. Her great showing in the leader's debate must have really rattled them, but they are showing a deal of lack of insight. The Tories need to be wooing her and building her profile, not trying to get people to turn away from her and vote Labour. A wholesale SNP MP return from Scotland next month pretty much guarantees a Tory win and another 5 years of having to put up with watching the poorest and most vulnerable in society being ground down by a government of people who hate them.

The Tories need to be wooing her and building her profile, not trying to get people to turn away from her and vote Labour

Are you in Scotland? You may be underestimating just how much Unionists of all political persuasions in Scotland dislike the idea of indepence. I'm a Labour voter but my vote will be determined by which party is more likely to ensure the SNP does not win in my constituency.

You think they have lied in order to try and get a swing toward the tories then?

They have done it in a very self defeating way then, don't you think? My impression from Scottish relatives and friends is that most would rather not vote than vote Tory.

I'm talking generally, which I know from your vehement dislike of the nats might be difficult, in the same way as I would find it difficult to talk generally about a subject I have vehement views on, so please don't think I'm trying to get a rise out of you.

It's funny how our totally different expectations of female and male appearance play out in cases like this. Men just have to wear the basic uniform and keep it neat, but they're not allowed much choice. Women have a wide range of options, but how they exercise that freedom is constantly being evaluated. Somehow Angela Merkel keeps up her resolutely un-glamorous look and doesn't run into much trouble for it (I'm sure some people try to get at her, but basically she's shown the world what to expect--and probably being a highly successful leader puts her above criticism) but for other women in public life, the appearance issue is a real problem.

Men get plenty of abuse for personal characteristics rather than their choices of presentation, though. I recall the American ex-senator and now Secretary of State John Kerry being compared to an animated Easter Island statue. Imaginative, that.

My impression from Scottish relatives and friends is that most would rather not vote than vote Tory

That doesn't accord with my experience whether friends,family or colleagues. Tory or Labour governments can be changed - the damage the Nationalists would do can't.

The No campaign was a broad church. I don't think that was reflected in the media. I was very surprised (and pleased) given the overwhelming fawning on nationalists in The Guardian during the campaign that its editorial came out against independence.

The queen made a sensible choice of a block pastel skirt and jacket about 25 years ago and has gone with it ever since. I wouldn't personally have black shoes and bag with everything ever after as she does but it's a good way to stop comments on her clothes.

Loved this when it first came out:

www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2014/07/new-boys-block-your-guide-kings-downing-street-catwalk