Channel 4 - Teens

[BreakingDad77]

There is a post under telly addicts but is bit general.

Did any of you see it last night?

It was interesting to see how Jess got treated by her peers for her support for banning of page 3 and also the girls disdain of the speaker that was brought in. When she counteracted a Page 3 is traditional with 'well slavery was' which seem to put some girls backs up.

I watched this couldn't find a thread in telly addicts etc ...it seemed weird the reactions, the actual talk Was painful to watch on both sides, some of the questions were ridiculous even given the age, however comparing outdated sexism to slavery was stupid and reactionary she would have been better comparing it to how ethnic minority stereotypes are published in the media.

It was interesting to see how going against the tide is still very hard as a teen especially for women iCould imagine a campaign about racism, homophobia being better embraced.

BreakingDad77
"When she counteracted a Page 3 is traditional with 'well slavery was' which seem to put some girls backs up."

The speaker compared being paid to voluntarily get your tits out for page 3 to being slowly worked to death on [insert menial back breaking task] with the reality that your children's children will be forced to do the same thing whilst legally being regarded as 3/5ths human.

Seems balanced to me.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"The point isn't that Page 3 is exactly like slavery in all respects hmm."

The point is that page 3 isn't like slavery in any respect. Challenging an appeal-to-tradition fallacy doesn't work effectively when ridiculous comparisons are made. The central point - that something becomes (more) correct the longer it's done for - is not directly tackled, instead you just piss people off (that you're trying to reach, lol) by implying they'd support slavery because they support page 3.

I agree on the point Buffy but was it the subtly was lost on them?

All they thought was 'racism omg'

With the whole selfie/social media culture, have things gone backwards? and young women feel even more need to look attractive to males?

It wasn't a good comparison at all really, they are less knee jerk traditions of racism that would have been a better comparison like gollywogging, blackface etc.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"Sounds as though you aren't applying a great deal of thought to the comparison then."

If you think there is some legitimate comparison between 'the black holocaust' and modelling on page 3 then you are beyond all reason and sense, and that's putting it very politely.

Dothey if you think the traditions of slavery in our culture was confined to the exploitation of black west Africans then you need to read more history.

(As an aside, if you compare the treatment of slaves over the past 2,000 years to the treatment of women over the past 2,000 years there might be more parallels than you think).

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"Sounds like you are using rhetoric to minimise the very real and fatal suffering of women across the globe, doesn't it Dothey. What's the death toll from femicide? How many women killed per week across the world by partners? How many rapes, acid attacks, mutilations and honour killings? "

Sounds like you're desperately trying to reframe the discussion. No prizes for guessing why; can you directly relate any of what you've said to P3?

BarbarianMum
"Dothey if you think the traditions of slavery in our culture was confined to the exploitation of black west Africans then you need to read more history.

(As an aside, if you compare the treatment of slaves over the past 2,000 years to the treatment of women over the past 2,000 years there might be more parallels than you think)."

No shit Sherlock; within the context of Britain, Afro-carribean slavery is by far the most relevant reference point. In any case the idea that being paid to model for P3 of your own free will is someone comparable to slavery, in any form, is utter bullshit.

FGS the girl was 15/16. Give her a break! Not the best analogy but most people without an axe to grind could see what she was getting at.

Yy to that scallops.

Can I just clarify I wasn't having a go at Choochi there btw! I thought you made some good points about better analogies.

scallops it wasn't the 15 year old who said it it was the adult guest speaker. I agree with others that it was a pretty clumsy and heavy handed attempt at contesting the tradition argument.

With quite a large contingent of the audience being non-white there was always the risk that they would take offence at the potential implication that supporting/not opposing page 3 is similar to supporting slavery, or that they would feel the speaker was trivialising slavery.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"Sounds like you are using rhetoric to minimise the very real and fatal suffering of women across the globe, doesn't it Dothey. What's the death toll from femicide? How many women killed per week across the world by partners? How many rapes, acid attacks, mutilations and honour killings? "

Dotheyfloat
"Sounds like you're desperately trying to reframe the discussion. No prizes for guessing why; can you directly relate any of what you've said to P3?"

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"Yes, I can do so easily. They are at the ends of a spectrum that devalues, dehumanises and commodifies women's bodies. Within the context of Britain (and who's reframing now, eh?) and outside.

Your posts reveal a propensity for sneering and goading, along with (or perhaps due to?) an unwillingness (or perhaps inability?) to engage with relatively simple ideas."

The question was "can you directly relate" "rapes, acid attacks, mutilations and honour killings" to modelling on Page 3. A simple question. The only thing you have 'easily' done in response is spectacularly demonstrate that the answer is 'No', by giving some hand-waving buzzword-response about 'ends of a dehumanizing commodification spectrum'. Lol.

Being paid to do a job of your choosing is called employment. And if you think Page 3 is degrading you should try working behind a McDonalds counter, or having your body 'commodified' doing 10hr shifts of manual labour. You'd soon stop whining about the enslaved travails of Page 3 models.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit
"But, do please keep screaming in the faces of the imaginary feminists, won't you. I can quite see how it is easier to win arguments when you get to decide what everyone thinks. hmm"

Please quote me where I have 'screamed in the faces of imaginary feminists'; you appear to be hallucinating.

I didn't realize my posts were quite so intoxicating.

Oh are you back, Dothey?

Good god, what utter drivel. I have and still do manual labour, you know, shovelling shite, knocking fence posts in, manhandling cattle (I got kicked in the belly by a stirk when I was pregnant).

And I was not, degraded it is a million miles from getting your tits out for the lads or other sex work. FFS.