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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Corset comeback

35 replies

grimbletart · 23/03/2015 17:31

fashion.telegraph.co.uk/news-features/TMG11484732/The-great-corset-comeback.html

I am horrified by this. Because I am an older MNer I remember my mother wearing corsets, laces and all - truly an invention of satan.

They are a health hazard if worn too tight and in any case do what your own muscles are supposed to do.

What the fuck are women thinking? Are we really that stupid?

OP posts:
Teeste · 23/03/2015 17:36

Lovely, 21st century waist training. Squished internal organs for all!

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/03/2015 17:38

Are we that stupid? Well no I don't think the average woman is. Do you know any ordinary woman who regularly wear corsets to look good?

grimbletart · 23/03/2015 18:10

It was a bit of a rhetorical question Briar Smile because I find it difficult to imagine anyone could possibly want to adhere their liver to their stomach but you know, fashion an' all? After all, some women still cripple their feet and distort their spines in 4 inch stiletto shoes…..

OP posts:
BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/03/2015 18:27

I'm just saying that I haven't seen the corset trend among the women I know.

It's really irresponsible to focus on such a tiny waist in the new Cinderella film. I don't want little girls to look at this and think it's beautiful, that this is how they should look Sad

I was thinking about it the other day, how women have more internal organs than men, and more body fat. Yet the beauty standard is to shrink us.

Teeste · 23/03/2015 18:34

Women in the burlesque scene have been doing the corset thing for years. Granted, it's not that mainstream but they do exist, waist training and all. If, as this article suggests, it's threatening to become more popular, that cannot be a good thing.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/03/2015 18:36

I know it's common in certain subcultures, but is it a mainstream thing now?

Teeste · 23/03/2015 18:41

I've yet to see any of my neighbours strutting down the road in a corset, it's true. The article points to Kim Kardashian as some kind of fashion leader and she's wearing them. No idea if that could translate into mainstream eventually. Mind you, if it's like most fashion fads, it'll be over by the summer, then everyone will be wearing Regency nighties as a backlash Grin

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/03/2015 18:49

Yes corsets are too sweaty for summer, time to put on the Regency nighties by then Smile

But seriously, I'm really bothered by this Cinderella thing. It feels so 1950s.

vesuvia · 23/03/2015 18:54

The people who will welcome the revival of the corset as a "good thing" for women include:

  1. people who are unaware of the corset's significant role in the oppression of women - perhaps they should read some history books?

  2. people who believe that the corset can be reclaimed to (allegedly) "empower" women - corsets didn't empower women in Victorian times, why would they empower today's women?

specialsubject · 23/03/2015 19:01

and 3) dumb fashion victims.

unfortunately some females ARE that stupid.

fortunately most of us are not!

SisterMoonshine · 23/03/2015 19:01

Just buying supermarket underwear recently I was surprised at how the spanx and body shaping slips etc have really taken off, so I guess ut's not much of a surprise.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/03/2015 19:03
  1. People who like it when women wear restrictive and uncomfortable clothing
HollyBdenum · 23/03/2015 19:13

Lots of my friends wear corsets for nights out. They tell me that they are far less uncomfortable than high heels -the main downside is that it can be hard to bend over. Most of them are feminists, although only some are feminist activists. Some are men.

StillLostAtTheStation · 23/03/2015 19:24

Magic knickers/ pants of steel are nothing new. If it's a special occasion I wear them to give a better line under a dress.

I also wore when I was younger very pretty lace corsets, not particularly cinched in and no more restrictive than a bra. They were from mainstream shops including Marks and Sparks. Not every day but they were nice occasionaly , especially if a dress was fitted in at the waste. This was mid 80s.

The ones in that article are a lot more extreme. Like much cat walk stuff few in real life are going to take it on.

sashh · 24/03/2015 06:42

Is it corsets or corset style clothing as worn by many goths?

You simply cannot get whale bone these days so if the former they need to be steel or plastic boned.

The image they show of the actress in Penny Dreadful - well she isn't wearing a corset, her outfits are certainly fitted but no where near as restrictive as the Victorian era garment.

And I'm not sure how many people can afford a propper corset as made by Vollers - not an add just for interest www.vollers-corsets.com/about-us most people, if they chose to follow the fashion, will go for high street styles that have been on wedding dresses for years, and high streets simply will not stock a garment that costs a fortune to make, need more skills than a factory in India can provide and materials that will last a propper lacing.

Personally I think the pressure women are put under to create an abnormal shape by exercise and diet is far more damaging. I cannot see a woman these days wearing a corset to bed unless she is of the minority who are already 'waist training'.

I have a corset type top with laces (actually a ribbon) on the front and with minimal boning - a strip at either side under arms, it is made out of something similar to a T shirt and is not restrictive.

Thistledew · 24/03/2015 07:36

I disagree that corsets and stays were articles of female oppression per se.

Yes, there have always been pressures on women to take fashions to extremes, and some high society women may have laced corsets tighter than was good for them, but this is not true for every woman who wore corsets.

Firstly, the idea of waist clinching is a bit of a myth. Yes, some styles of corsets appear to shrink the waist, but what most of the original styles did was to create a rounder shape so that the waist was smaller from side to side, but was in fact deeper front to back, ie from a 0 shape to a O shape.

Secondly, a properly made corset that is fitted to your individual dimensions is not uncomfortable. Even poor women would have had access to a made to measure garment, albeit one that had parts salvaged from cast offs of wealthier women. Unless you go to the extremes of lacing, they do not inhibit your breathing.

Thirdly, women of all classes wore corsets, including those doing hard manual work. They most certainly were not lacing so tight that they were fainting at any exertion. Instead, a corset was a garment that provided considerable support when you were hand washing large bundles of linen, or carrying buckets of water up three flights of stairs in the house in which you were working, or on your hands and knees scrubbing floors. It should be born in mind that many male labourers would wear a corset, usually of leather, for just the same reason. Yes, the corset died out in the Victorian era, but it is probably no coincidence that this coincided with the increase in labour saving devices in the home.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 24/03/2015 13:35

Thistledew is right. I've worn historic costume from 15th-18th century styles, both upper and lower class; a corset per se isn't particularly distorting or uncomfortable. I don't know what the most extreme 19th ones would be like, though. We tend to forget the extent to which modern underwired bras are distorting (giving a middle aged woman the perky breasts of a 20 year old....) and if anything I'm probably more relieved to get my bra off at the end of the day than I ever was with a nice set of 17th or 18th century stays.
If waist training is becoming popular again that can't be healthy. In some ways, though, I think my concern is more about the symbolic meaning of corsets and whether some wearers/people who find corset wearers attractive are doing so partly because the idea of female restriction and old-fashioned gender politics appeals.

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:30

I thought women sometimes had their lower ribs taken out to achieve the shape aimed for with corsets? I'm sure I heard that.

The woman in the film has said that she was on a liquid diet to achieve the look and for me that in itself is a terrible message. If you want to look good don't eat solids, quite aside from (and in addition to?) the whole trussing yourself up factor.

Corsets are why women used to faint the whole time aren't they?

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:32

" Instead, a corset was a garment that provided considerable support when you were hand washing large bundles of linen, or carrying buckets of water up three flights of stairs in the house in which you were working, or on your hands and knees scrubbing floors."

These aren't the sort of garments that are likely to be undergoing a revival though are they, if we're looking at the film and what's on the catwalk.

That's a bit like saying oh high heel shoes are bad and responding aha yes but not all shoes have high heels and they are actually pretty useful IYSWIM.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 24/03/2015 16:35

Rib removal is a myth!

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:38

Looking at the article and I wouldn't think what the big picture of the woman is wearing is any more troublesome than some spanx or something (although those items obviously have probs from a feminist perspective!).

But statements like this:

"There are women in the public eye who are curvaceous and are helping in bringing a waist and hips back into fashion again, much like the figures of the 50s," says Bothamley"

But this isn't about a haircut or piercings or clothing it's about people's bodies and the idea that different shapes for women's bodies go in and out of fashion - which they do - is just bizarre. Women come in the shapes and sizes they come in and to deem tall slender figures "the fashion" one year and small curvy people "the fashion" a few years later and all variations of athletic, breast sizes, emaciated etc etc etc it's just awful. You can't change your body to meet these things like you can change your hairstyle, it's just so grim. I can't grow 6 inches and develop an hourglass shape no matter how "fashionable" it is, and what are those women to do when the fashion says you must look like me? And then we have fetishising really unnatural things eg waistlines like the one in the film....

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:39

Is it countess? I had wondered!

I thought it was surprising as presumably open surgery would have been pretty dangerous then.

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:40

Oh I googled and you can get ribs removed for cosmetic purposes these days though

here

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:44

That's not on the NHS obviously!

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 16:57

Should say as well that it's one of those things where if I wanted to do it (and I knew quite a lot of people who did when I was younger in an alternative club scene kind of a way) then that's kind of all well and good, but still it bears looking at, at a societal level doesn't it + plus what kind of ideas are behind female desirability so often equalling extremely difficult to attain and uncomfortable and restrictive etc.

Sorry for multi posts!