Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Gym thinks only men can be Drs

363 replies

DrElizabethPlimpton · 18/03/2015 18:21

I've just seen a link to a Daily Fail article (I won't link obviously) about a gym in Cambridgeshire

A paediatrician joined and she found that her electronic key wouldn't allow her access to the female changing room. The 'glitch' was explained by staff - apparently her title Dr automatically defaulted to the assumption she was male.
I'm currently speechless.

OP posts:
QueenStromba · 20/03/2015 15:37

You're making the mistake of trying to apply logic to the situation.

kim147 · 20/03/2015 16:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 16:22

Cool, you disengage then.

FrenchFriedHamster · 20/03/2015 16:33

Can whoever is forcing Kim to post please stop now? It's cruel, she repeated over and over that everyone is being mean to her. SO please stop forcing her to post.

YonicScrewdriver · 20/03/2015 16:55

Kim and Jeanne, you don't get on on here and you rarely bring out the best in each other.

Kim, I don't think that's specific to the FWR board though - it's just a fact about the two of you. If this thread was in chat, you'd've both posted similarly. So quite why you are pulling the "that's why FWR is known for hostility" card, I don't know. But I hate that card.

FloraFox · 20/03/2015 16:59

I think Kim is pulling the FWR card because we hate it and it lends support to the claim we're all mean bullies for disagreeing with Kim.

YonicScrewdriver · 20/03/2015 17:03

Hmm, but I think of Kim as an FWR regular who sometimes took MN breaks and I thought she saw herself that way too.

So I don't understand the use of the card.

YonicScrewdriver · 20/03/2015 17:03

Took = takes, mixed up my tenses.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 17:08

I'm not sure discussing why kim made reference to FWR is that helpful if she's finally gone.

We probably would have had the same argument anywhere, yonic, but I think equally, I'd have had the same argument with anyone else, too. If we'd been in chat, this would have been diluted by an awful lot of other people saying 'dunno what the fuss is about' or 'I hate people who use the title Dr' or 'don't you have real worries'. And I would probably have responded with equal lack of nicey-nicey politeness to them (as I did to dadwas on here, and to his credit, he doesn't seem to have taken against a blunt reply at all).

I haven't made any personal attacks or been deleted, and kim hasn't been deleted either, so honestly, it could be a whole lot more full of aggro and I'm glad it's not.

AskBasil · 20/03/2015 18:19

I find it instructive people who are regularly here and then blurt out how we're all horrible and "this is why everyone else on Mumsnet hates you too, so there".

Because it gives a little insight into the spirit in which they come here.

QueenStromba · 20/03/2015 18:36

Good point Basil. There are a million and one trans-inclusive, sex industry positive etc feminist sites so why come here and complain about being disagreed with if that's your viewpoint?

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 18:40

It's got fuck all to do with trans issues, let alone sex positive ones.

Or rather, it is precisely the same issue for transwomen, transmen, and everyone else who, understandably, would prefer to get to use their own title rather than whatever a misogynistic system throw at them. So it is, for goodness' sake, and issue we should be able to agree on.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 18:42

Sorry, that came out significantly ruder than I meant it.

almondcakes · 20/03/2015 18:43

Quite apart from everything else on this thread, the customer facing staff should have apologised. Everyone who works with the public understands that you are apologising on behalf of the company, not because you individually did something wrong.

In addition to what Buffy said, they should have given her free membership until the system was resolved.

QueenStromba · 20/03/2015 18:49

There are a large swathes of feminist sites that would agree that it's more important that trans people get to use their title of choice than women who have worked hard to achieve something or just don't want to be defined by their relationship to men.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/03/2015 18:49

My DP (male) has been to a training session today, run by a woman, about how the sexes can collaborate more effectively at work.

It boiled down to the woman saying that women need to understand how mens' minds work - alomg the 3 principles of procreate, protect and provide - and adjust their working methods accordingly.

I didn't even know where to start with this in it's utter ludicrous sexism, in both directions. Utter wanky bollocks

This is 2015 Britain folks.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 18:57

That's true, queen, and we could've had that debate, but we weren't really, I don't think.

bit - ohhh, that's infuriating. I read something recently (and, annoyingly, can't now remember where) with someone else observing that, in these bogus claims that men and women have 'different minds', it's always the women who're told to adjust. Hmm

kim147 · 20/03/2015 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 19:31

No one called you a misogynist.

I've just searched for the word in this thread, and it's not once been applied to you. Not even in an oblique way.

Repeating it, and accusing me of 'abuse' for something I haven't said, is really shit.

TiggyD · 20/03/2015 19:35

JdeM - The nearest parallel I can think, would be the sort of experience you might have if you're a male nurse.

Or Male nursery worker. When I signed my latest contract the stated correct uniform was the shirt provided and black trousers or skirt. (Or maybe they were just very inclusive).
I've worked in lots of nurseries where the loo was marked with the 'Ladies' symbol, with no loo for males in the building.
I recently looked at a job where all the regular nursery staff had the title "Governess".

People just assume that no men do the job. Annoying and sexist, but things get worked around or ignored. It's the not being given jobs that makes me angry.

The gym issue, I dare say that all over the country there are businesses checking their computer systems to avoid sexism.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 20/03/2015 19:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 19:39

Yes, true, that'd be similar - it's appalling.

BuffyEpistemiwhatsit · 20/03/2015 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/03/2015 19:41

I don't get what kim is saying.

Because what kim is saying is not, in fact, true.

I know people get upset in the heat of the moment, and misremember what's been said, but I have not said what she claims. Nor is it 'abuse' or 'bullying' for me to say she doesn't understand something. It's my opinion.

She has many times on this thread stated, as facts, things I happen to disagree with. She has nowhere said 'sorry, Jeanne, I feel so rude, claiming you don't understand and explaining that you're wrong! But I just don't agree'.

Why not?

Cos it's not considered necessary for her. For her, it's ok to tell me I'm wrong and don't understand. But god forbid I do the same, because that's abuse and bullying.

TiggyD · 20/03/2015 19:42

I suggested that Buffy but the men who made up the board of governors had that title already. Then there was the whole 'that's sexist/if you ever try to contact me again I'll take legal action' stuff.