Is it me or ...

[hstar1995]

Young women are becoming increasingly anti abortion? I mean we all have different views and I do appreciate that, but it seems to me that lots of women my age (under 25) seem keen on restricting women's right to choice that many fought - and still are fighting - to achieve.

In my uni lecture (a childcare course so maybe some bias) we were discussing abortions and almost the whole class were saying abortion should be banned, only in cases or rape, and telling anecdotes of women they know who've 'had 6/7 abortions and use it as birth control' . it annoys me so much, especially the myth that women use abortion as birth control. I know people have different opinions but I was so shocked to hear young women talking about how if they were in charge, they would basically take away other women's rights . I'm probably being over sensitive but I think it's worrying that this attitude is so obvious in some parts of the UK

I think (in my experience anyway) that the younger you are the more conservative about that sort of thing you tend to be. I suspect they will feel differently when their lives have been touched by pregnancy (unwanted or wanted). I've always been pro-choice but having children really brought it home how important it is for a woman to have complete body autonomy. Pregnancy and labor are hard and motherhood are hard enough without being forced in to them.

(Also I think women who haven't had children might be underestimating the difficulty of say giving a child up for adoption. As a mother I know I could have an abortion but I could not give away a baby)

I remember being anti abortion in more than one debate at school and uni. A very good friend was reluctant to tell me she was having an abortion due to my 'beliefs'.

I'm now pro-choice. I grew up.

We'll everything goes post....post modern, post materialism, post religion and now post feminism. I think that feminism is morphing into something old schoolers don't like, it's seems that hardcore beliefs are not as important to young women as they never had to fight for them, so expect change.

It's OK to be anti-abortion, in terms of what you would choose for yourself.

It's also OK to campaign (lawfully) for changes to the law on any subject whatsoever.

There is never going to be any agreement on the morals of abortion. The best one can hope for is toleration of all viewpoints, and laws that are framed in terms of the well-being of women.

"abortion should be banned, only in cases of rape, "

I never understand the logic of this. The only logic is punishing women for a possible outcome of voluntary sex. Punishing both them and the babies they are forced to birth and raise, for an unlooked for outcome to an act millions undertake every day.

If it was about personhood from conception, not punishment, there'd be no exception for rape.

PS my mid twenties English teacher used to roll her eyes at any early teen essay on the abortion debate. Views become more informed with age and experience, whether direct or through friends.

I was anti abortion(ish) before I had kids. Going through a pregnancy and giving a child up for adoption or bring a child up alone and still managing uni or work seemed completely plausible. I didn't go out drinking much and a lot of don't get pg too young' talk seemed to focus on not being able to get pissed every weekend rather than the actual difficulties.

I think the 'in case of rape' argument comes about from it being one of the first challenges to an anti-choice stance, and it's difficult to argue against so people end up conceding it. I don't think it's born from any particular logic.

Yeah, I think you're right, Captain. But if it follows through even one more step, it does sound like they thinkbabies are a reasonable punishment for a contraception failure...

I was thinking about this earlier, not anti abortion, but the viewpoints I held when I was younger and how sure I was of them without understanding them.

In my late teens I would be massively passionate about something having read one article. I took it as fact and never really looked in to it more than that. Now I am more careful with my judgements and read up around a subject that interests me, I try to be as informed as possible.

I wonder if it's that assuredness you have when you're younger that makes you only look at abortion as being about the featus, rather than a woman's choice, body autonomy and, as others have said, the reality of having a baby.

I agree with PPs and think that younger women have always tended to be more anti-abortion. I think ethics about personhood and bodily autonomy are badly taught and it's much more emotional to 'think of the poor unborn babies'. I remember debating in class at 13/14 that the time limit should be reduced from 28 weeks (as it was then) - a position I now find difficult to believe I held!

"abortion should be banned, only in cases of rape, "

I never understand the logic of this.

Me either, you either think that the foetus has a right to life or you don't. The 'except in the instances of rape' shows the misogyny behind anti-abortion campaigns - women need to be punished for sex and foetuses are less valuable if they are the product of rape.

It's OK to be anti-abortion, in terms of what you would choose for yourself.

Um not if you're a feminist it's not! And this is the FWR board. It's OK to not choose abortion for yourself if that's what you meant.

Are they ? It's not a subject I've discussed with young women. I wonder why that would be. I have always been pro-choice. I was very left wing as a teenager and have moved to the centre on many things but not this.

I suspect as a teenager / young woman I was pro-choice because I was sexually active at 15, went on the pill because I was very determined nothing was going to get in the way of what I wanted to do.

I saw contemporaries having babies at 16/17. I used contraception but if it had failed I would definitely have had a termination.

Sorry me again, Ample I definitely did not think of abortion only , or indeed, at all in terms of the foetus. I remember being a week late once at 16 and I was 100% sure a baby would ruin my plans. It was me I was thinking about.

I haven't asked any young women about this. However, young people, in the recent past have tended to be politically left of the older generation. Young people now are more to the right of them. Would therefore make sense theyd be anti choice too.

m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27865991

I've taught classes on abortion in schools...that sounds wrong, lol, it was actually morals and ethics as part of religious studies and one of the topics is abortion.

Young people on the whole are anti-abortion, to the point where sometimes it's even hard to get a debate going as a whole class will just agree and you really have to push to get them to even consider the opposing view.

It's partly that they always think they're right, even with little knowledge about a subject and so sure that things don't happen unless they choose them (as in, the view that women shouldn't get pregnant if they don't want a baby)partly just a lack of life experience and partly that they often have a romanticised idea of little cute babies and aren't mature enough to really understand quite how life changing that is or that adoption isn't easy either.

The older the class is the more you get mixed opinions, so I assume that continues after they've left school.

Oddly, the same classes were fairly strongly pro-euthanasia.

Maybe younger people view the world in black and white.
I used to be anti abortion until I realised that there are grey areas between the black and white.

I also had anarchist learning. I really thought that all people would live peacefully together in there were no laws or police.

When I was 25 ( 40 years ago) I also thought there would never be any more wars in Europe, because we, the people wouldn't allow it.

Then seeing car stickers printed with 'have a good day, kill an Argie' made me realise that not everyone shared my values.

I've become more pro-choice as I've got older too. I agree with what others have said about young people sometimes being a bit more black and white about things and quicker to judge (eg. "Well she shouldn't have got pregnant if she didn't want it...").

I also think there's a generational difference. My mum and several women of her generation have told me they're shocked by how anti-abortion younger women are. They fought hard for the abortion act and many women that age will remember the horror of back street abortions and self-administered abortions. Maybe it's harder for young women to imagine the reality of abortion being illegal or harder to access.

I think what Tabula said is kind of what I was aiming for.

Still I'm not in any way suggesting every young woman feels the same or approaches the subject the same. For you, you were pro choice because it was something that could impact you (I appreciate you may well have been pro choice even if it didnt) but for those who won't be affected it's very easy to be black and white about it and think only of the baby and not the mother.

Ample possibly however the ones who are theoretically anti might change their minds when faced with the reality of an unwanted pregnancy.

Oh teenagers definitely are so black and white (I know the OP was talking about older people than that, but that's where my experience is) they're so sure that things are either right or wrong...some of that is because it is all hypothetical to them.

I know when I was that age I had much stronger opinions on things than I do now, I think the ability to see both sides of an argument and to actually have any chance of putting yourself in someone else's shoes comes much later - I'm pretty sure brain development doesn't stop until you're in your twenties?

Still I agree. I think it's probably more about life experience than age, but for the majority of people one comes with the other.

young people, in the recent past have tended to be politically left of the older generation. Young people now are more to the right of them.

This is a pretty worrying trend, especially when one considers that generally, people veer slightly to the political right as they get older.

The idea that the political right wants to have less government involvement is pretty laughable when stated against the aim of preventing women from having bodily autonomy really.

I can remember in 1975 (when I was 16) my friends and I talking about a girl in the year above us who had had an abortion.

She was someone we disliked a lot with good reason. She was a nasty bully, very full of herself and had been very cruel to at least one of us. I recall us talking about it that it might take her down a peg and that she wasn't as clever as she thought she was.

Not very nice of us but I don't recall any of us saying she should not have had an abortion or criticising her for it. There were plenty of other reasons for judging her but her right to choose to abort was a given.

Yes I'm wondering about that Villa and Puffins. How old (roughly) are those saying they were anti-abortion when younger? Let's try a local poll. I'm 40 and was pro-choice in my teens. As far as I remember most teens and my fellow students then were. There were occasional times when a right-wing christian (theynearly always were professed christians, and many were male) briefly made me question myself but I always went back.

Our whole society has shifted to the right and there is accordingly a backlash against feminism at the same time. This is going to sound harsh, but my reaction is 'when did young women stop being able to think?' You don't need to be personally affected right now to imagine a situation where you might be. Why is there no empathy in our society any more?

Tabula, I saw things in black and white as a teen and twenager too. I came down on the pro-choice side. I still have strong opinions. Why do you think a strong opinion is a negative one?

Seriously worried!