Since when does 'Ms' means divorced?

[Nolim]

By reading another thread i found out that, according to a significant fraction of posters, the title Ms (as opposed to Miss or Mrs) is for divorced women! This is news to me!

For context English is not my first language. When i lived in the states i learned that Ms was invented to have a female title independent of marital status, just like Mr for men. I thought it was a brilliant idea and have used Ms ever since, as did the majority if women i met there.

Have i been self identifying myself as divorced all this time in the uk? I thought that the idea of Ms was to simplify the situation, not to make it more complicated!

It was always a neutral title, which Some People interpreted by themselves as being 'about' divorced women, and that interpretation was then perpetuated.

It's weird that these individual loons still persist, a friend of mine was told by a staff member at a well known phone company that "Ms. wasn't a real title so she couldn't use it". She complained to head office, obviously, and got a proper apology.

How can it be an urban myth if it actually happened to me? (and Prof Yaffle). I was there in the office when the CRB people were phoned up and the issue was that I had 'lied' (yes that term was used) by not declaring my 'other name'.
It had delayed me starting a college placement.

In my case, our office were the people in HR who checked the forms before they were sent off to the CRB so definitely not bounced back by us! This actually happened to me, with my form, I saw it with my own eyes. Tbf I just sent it back saying 'never been married' and they accepted that.

I bow to superior knowledge. But I stick to my loon explanation- even though there must have been more than one loon. It certainly wasn't government policy.

There's no escaping the loons ......

if you google it, it is a common feature of any site giving advice on crb form filling, that when using either 'mrs' or 'ms' that the section with any other surname should also be completed
even government websites say similar, this is from a document on milton keynes council website for instance
" â??Msâ?? as a title must be explained and any other names given;"

note : it does not advise similar for other titles

'If the titles â??Msâ?? or â??Mrsâ?? have been used, previous surnames must be provided "

thats from leicester govt /council pages

of course, we might think that means if you had any other surname but it actually meant you had to write your same surname in twice or the form was rejected

I have to submit to background screening for my job (in the US). It does not ask for titles at all. It asks for gender and any other names by which you have been known.

I'd be quite happy to do away with titles.

I know that poeple who are Dr etc sometimes like them and that's OK but bog-standard people, I mean they hardly get used do they.

The only times I have to do titles is applying for stuff and the school always use my title and surname.

In work, in a business context, in my industry, titles haven't been used since I was in my early 20s. It's firstname surname and that works fine.

I'd be perfectly happy just to get rid of them. What purpose do they serve anyway? Just establishing where you are in the hierarchy & if you're female whether you're taken or not

I'd be happy to get rid of them too. I'm Dr. but I don't really like using it outside of a work context because it makes me feel like a bit of a knob.

I took my dd (9) to the dentist today and had to fill in a registration form for her. Against title I circled 'Ms' and she asked why. I explained and she instantly grabbed the pen and crossed it out. I asked why, did she want to be Miss? She said, "No, I'm not going to be anything; that's grown-up stuff and it's silly".

She has a point.

I'd never heard of it signifying divorced until I saw threads on AIBU insisting it did. Which is nonsense. I use Miss or Ms. I loathe Mrs. Mainly the sound of it " missis" Ugh.

It is a great pity English doesn't have an equivalent of Madame or Frau just being a female person who is no longer a girl.

Devora your dd is brilliant. It is silly. :)

If filling in online forms offers only Mr Mrs and Miss I always complain and if possible refuse to go any further. I was all set up to subscribe to a well-known international development periodical which for all its progressive credentials only offered these titles so I didn't subscribe & told them why. Next time I checked, they were offering some 12 different titles including Major, Right Reverend and Princess!

But seriously why don't we go the Quaker way and do away with titles altogether?

I have never ever heard of "Ms" being used to indicate you are divorced, until reading this thread, and I am old. I have only ever heard of it being used as a female equivalent to "Mr" - ie a title that doesn't indicate what your marital status is.

What Archery said. Ms = divorce = nonsense.

If there was a time when Ms was more likely to have signified a woman's marital status as divorced rather than undisclosed, I think it could only have been between about 1860 and 1960, but that was also a time when few women divorced or concealed their marital status anyway. Since the 1960s, people who perpetuate the divorcee usage of Ms have definitely been in the minority.

I know various people (all older generation) who are clear that Ms signifies a divorcee - rightly or wrongly, it's a commonly held belief

I know it's wrong to comment about threads elsewhere, but it has been mentioned that the only people who use Ms as their titles are bitter twisted divorcees and aggressive lesbians. Not sure where that leaves me tbh.