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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Babies are automatically boys

47 replies

ourglass · 06/03/2015 18:23

Just sorting out some old baby books today. You know, the ones about brining up your baby etc. I had never noticed they had called the baby a 'he'. It says in most books they say he but mean he or she. Does this make sense? Why say he? Why not she? Male dominance starts early doors then.

OP posts:
StormyBrid · 07/03/2015 12:23

Penguins is that book Copycat? DD's father was rather thrown by it too. Because dogs are boys and cats are girls, apparently.

GoatsDoRoam · 07/03/2015 12:28

IME it's a very British thing to view cats as "she". Never heard it anywhere else.

It seems odd to me, because, given prevailing gender stereotypes, it is dogs who should be seen as feminine (as they are social and made of empathy) and cats as masculine (as they are ...not).

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 07/03/2015 12:56

stormybird -Yup.Grin

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 07/03/2015 13:00

I think it's changing slowly. We've had a couple of books using 'her' for a baby. I'm so conditioned it made me look twiceShock! And I'm a feminist Hmm

Messygirl · 07/03/2015 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mary24go · 07/03/2015 13:19

Boys have not always been called boys.

Until the late 15th century the word ‘girl’ simply means a child of either sex.

Boys, where they had to be differentiated, were referred to as ‘knave girls’ .

Girls in the female sense were called ‘gay girls’.

Equally a boy could be a ‘knave child’ and a girl a ‘maiden child’.

The term ‘boy’ was reserved for servants or ‘churls’, the meaning ‘young man’ probably deriving from the latter as a pejorative term but not occurring before 1440.

Also a baby in pink today and it will be almost universally identified as a girl. Yet this is actually the opposite of the system that prevailed until quite recently. Until well into the 20th century, toddlers who were not dressed in a non-gender-specific white, were put in pink for boys and blue for girls.

The Sunday Sentinel noted in March 1914: “Use pink for the boy and blue for the girl, if you are a follower of convention.”

Four years later, in June 1918, the US magazine Ladies’ Home Journal registered that there was some confusion but added:

“… the generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger colour, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”

BertieBotts · 07/03/2015 13:21

It's to create a contrast with the mother who will be "she". I remember reading this as a disclaimer in the front of several books.

Modern typical convention is to alternate gender pronouns chapter by chapter.

StormyBrid · 07/03/2015 15:31

I wish white were still non gender specific. The amount of people who looked at my newborn daughter all in white and assumed "boy"... When questioned, they all said, "But she's not wearing any pink..."

rosy71 · 07/03/2015 20:16

I read somewhere that the use of "they" to mean he/she predates "he " as the default pronoun. I think "he" became widely used in the 19th century.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 07/03/2015 20:44

Great post mary. Smile
I'm from Poland even even a dew decades ago it was blue for the girl, pink for the boy for all the wrong reasons if you ask me. Red was considered a Royal colour and full of strength Hmm so pink was for boys. Virgin Mary is/ was depicted in blues so blue/ navy blue for the girl.
I'm an atheist feminist so go figure why I left Wink

drspouse · 07/03/2015 21:14

There are genres where the default person is male but the default child is female (you can sometimes find this is medical literature for example). It strikes me that this could be because those worrying about children are more likely to be female themselves, but it could also be because babies are seen as weaker.

drspouse · 07/03/2015 21:15

*writing not worrying

TomCruiseCreepsMeOut · 07/03/2015 23:44

I have had three children in three years, with one more imminent, and every book I have read refers to the baby as SHE. I asssumed this was to counter the evil dicks that automatically think babies should be born male or not at all.

nikkinack · 08/03/2015 07:57

I always alternated he and she when reading 'Dear Zoo' to my children, because it pissed me off that all the animals were 'he'. You have to start with he because that makes the lion, who has a mane, a he, but happily, that means the dog is a she, so you can say 'She was perfect, I kept her', at the end Grin

HarrietTheFly · 09/03/2015 20:17

My dp refers to all other drivers as "he". His default is male for a lot of things, but particularly this. It really bothers me because I don't drive and I don't want dd growing up to think it's a thing men do. I now point it out to him every time. I even annoy myself but he is getting better.

bluelamp · 09/03/2015 23:18

nikkinack are you me? I do exactly the same, and love doing it even more now I have DS who loves dogs.

bluelamp · 09/03/2015 23:20

DH on the other hand even refers to MOG as as a male. Mog is not male. I may have got irrationally annoyed at him about this. He's pretty wonderful the rest of the time.

littleangel1006 · 09/03/2015 23:37

I assume old books did it because of the sexism that was around. And boys were seen as better.
Genetically babies are girls and diverted to boys so you could argue it should always be she.
Books need to pick one sex to make the information easy to read. And I assume it could partially be because it differentiates from the female mother as previously said.
Either way I think it's very hard to not he/she to a baby you don't know the sex of so they have to decide one or the other....

MrNoseybonk · 10/03/2015 08:24

People are also offended if you refer to their babies as "it" though.
"What's it's name?"
"It's a he/she, not an it!".
This also applies to dogs I've found...

ErrolTheDragon · 10/03/2015 08:24

Wouldn't it be simpler if we could just use 'it' for undetermined people and other living creatures.

WTF are we supposed to do when we're talking to our kids about snails? Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 10/03/2015 08:26

x-post ... I don't suppose people actually get offended if you 'it' their pet snail...

MrNoseybonk · 10/03/2015 08:32

lol, you never know, it takes all sorts.

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