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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to deal with goady/"hurt" family

36 replies

MilchundCookies · 13/02/2015 06:16

I suppose I have indeed become more "radical" in my opinions/Facebook musings over the last year, but I seriously can't believe how many people HATE concepts such as enthusiastic consent, gender neutral parenting, non-victim-blaming campaigns, etc.

My SIL ended up having a real go at me over email last week, saying she can't understand where I am coming from, what on earth has happened to me, do I need help ... She believes wholeheartedly that men have it much harder than women, and that I am going to damage my children with my weird beliefs.

This is coming from a family where the daughter's (preschooler) appearance is lauded above all other achievements, the father regularly uses racial slurs, the son (toddler) is shut in a bedroom if he starts crying for any reason, and my SIL mildly watches as her husband dictates "traditional" family values.

I can't change their opinions, nor is it my responsibility to educate them, I don't feel. I love the children very much and just try to be a friendly face to them when we see them.

But I don't know how to react to the adults anymore. They are family, going no-contact isn't really an option we want, but our views are just so wholly imcompatible. They like to say things to provoke me, and then watch carefully my reaction. (My own mother does this too, actually.)

For example, BIL said the N word three times in a conversation at New Year, and then got very angry I pulled him up on it. Political correctness gone mad, he can say what he wants in his own house, etc. etc.

He then waxed lyrical about how uncessary it is to have female and male designations for jobs (we're in Germany), such as Kapitän (male captain) and Kapitänin (female captain). He knows one female captain and she doesn't want the female designation, so it should be abolished across the board.

They are coming tomorrow for DS's first birthday party. I know SIL wants to "have a word" with me to see if we can "save our friendship". Short of telling them to fuck off, what can I do? What do I say? I feel like it'll be a constant battle in my head to not pull them up on their sexist/racist shit all day, but I don't want to cause a scene on DS's birthday, good little socialised woman that I am.

Any wise words? Sorry this is so long.

OP posts:
uglyswan · 14/02/2015 12:05

How's it going OP? I completely agree that you should shut down and ignore any attempt at "having a word". And since it's your house, any racist or sexist remarks can be shut down immediately as well: "Das ist nicht in Ordnung, das wisst ihr auch und ich verbitte mir solche Kommentare." Aaaand change the subject. For the future, I might be tempted to email your SIL this sort of thing generischesfemininum.wordpress.com/ - the generic feminine as a solution to those pesky two gender job designations. But you are a better person than I am...

StillLostAtTheStation · 14/02/2015 13:53

He then waxed lyrical about how uncessary it is to have female and male designations for jobs (we're in Germany), such as Kapitän (male captain) and Kapitänin (female captain). He knows one female captain and she doesn't want the female designation, so it should be abolished across the board

That's interesting. English of course can't distinguish whether a Captain is male or female. And The Guardian for example uses "actor" to mean a person who acts. Generally the "ess" format of words is falling out of use.

Oh and he sounds awful.

StillLostAtTheStation · 14/02/2015 14:12

You asked about words which distinguish the gender of the person- apart from actress, waitress, headmistress, manageress, policeman, fireman and chairman I can't think of many in English.

Professions are gender neutral. 60 years ago a solicitor, doctor, architect, soldier and accountant is likely to have been a man and a nurse a woman but those terms are gender neutral. And should be. I can't see any reason to make a distinction and would like all of them to be obsolete.

The ones I get stuck on are fire persons and police persons. "Police" and "Fire Service" is fine for the whole body but what is a gender neutral term for their employees? I don't see any need to distinguish the gender -

"police officer?" - possibly

"Fire officer" isn't right .

PuffinsAreFictitious · 14/02/2015 14:18

Try firefighter then....

Milch... it's my understanding from German friends that they are linguistically moving away from the gendered endings to professions, slowly but surely? So, your BiL is a linguistic dinosaur AND a racist, misogynist prick.

Hope you're ok.

Chillyegg · 14/02/2015 14:40

My step dad ( who my mum finally left thank goodness) used to try and provoke me. He literally disliked every minority group, which was bizarre as my self and brother are mixed race. I used to react badly to his bullshit and then learnt to calmly reply and make him look like the stupid fuckwhit he was. That was enjoyable Grin

With regards to your sil don't engage especially at your child's party (she does sound like a nightmare) . Just say this is a children's event please do not ruin it and walk away or go busy your self.
Her trying to force her opinion on you isn't ok. next time she emails just say "that's your opinion I don't agree don't force it on me don't email with your opions, I find then offensive".
If she carries in block her on email.
I feel very sorry for her children just try to be there when they're older and the parents opinions revolt them.
Lastly sorry about the essay but when your bil open uses racist words remind them that they are illegal
And of he was in public anyone could be in their right to report him to the police.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 14/02/2015 15:17

Are you ok OP?

I would practice the 'broken record' approach. Which is that you pick a response, and you stick with it. So if your BIL is ranting about political correctness and his house, you can say "You are entitled to your opinion. I think it's racist and offensive ". He goes blah, de blah, de blah. You say "as I say, you're entitled to your opinion, but it is racist and offensive." If it goes on too long, you make an excuse and leave the room (loo, kids, whatever).

It's quite confrontational, but it's a trick HR people often use in managing very, very difficult employees. Do not give them another hook to catch onto without conceding your point.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 14/02/2015 15:17

And come for a drink in the pub after your party. We're nice, honest

TeiTetua · 14/02/2015 15:22

actress, waitress, headmistress, manageress, policeman, fireman and chairman...

Back in the dark ages, people might pay their bus fare to a "conductress". And if you had to die, you could go knowing that your affairs were in the hands of an executrix.

MilchundCookies · 14/02/2015 15:40

Thanks for all your messages of support. Very much appreciated.

It went fine. The kids all got on, there were no words had with anyone, and the conversation was kept mostly nice and neutral at all times.

SIL cornered me at one point and pointedly asked how I was, because I think they are now terribly worried that I was subjected to some terrifying stranger danger rape in an alleyway as a teenager. How disappointed they'll be to find out it wasn't "proper rape", only "date rape" (in as much as you can be on a date aged 13) and there were no strangers or knives or punches thrown. Anyway, I ignored the tone and breezily said I was fine.

Other than that, one of my friends here today is pregnant, and SIL told her how awful it is being pregnant when everyone gives you advice/touches your bump/tells you what to do. I bit my tongue and did not point out the irony of her finding difficult her bodily autonomy and personhood being infringed upon during pregnancy, while simultaneously believing women are seen as fully equal to men.

The other sad thing was that their DD (aged 3) had cut her own hair recently. Cut a blunt fringe, to be precise. It looks adorable, as all 3-year-olds look, as far as I'm concerned. But SIL and BIL told us so seriously how awful it is, how she's ruined her looks, etc. Apparently, when their DD walked in having done it, SIL burst into tears and took DD to a mirror, where she was told to look and see how ugly she had made herself. DD obviously cried her heart out at that too. I wanted to fucking cry for her myself. No amount of expressing relief at their DD not having stabbed herself in the eye, or saying that it's hair FFS and it will grow back, would lighten the mood. No longer being the most beautiful child in the room (according to them) is clearly the worst thing she could do.

So yeah, it was mostly fine apart from that. I gave their kids an extra hug and squeeze as they left.

Bloody exhausted now though and in a sugar coma from too much cake and we have a grown-ups party to go to in a couple of hours. But tomorrow evening I will try to be brave and come stop by the pub. Really appreciate being able to tell someone/all of you this. It's so nice to know that the outrage and pissed-off-ness I've been feeling isn't totally misplaced, nor that I am the radical idiot they make me feel. Flowers

Oh, and thanks for your thoughts on the job descriptions. Really interesting. Will read again later properly and digest them.

OP posts:
YouBetterWerk · 15/02/2015 13:42

Milchund, that hair story is awful - the poor girl. I agree with PP about making sure you are there ten years down the line when they start to rebel Wink

Glad that I could help and the party wasn't a disaster.

sixandtwothrees · 15/02/2015 20:24

They sound so horrible. That poor girl...

And well done on the party going off okay.

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