Not guilty verdict in FGM case - what do we think?

[Amethyst24]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31138218

It did seem like an intractable case with which to test the legislation, and it does appear the doctor was put in a position in which he had no idea how best to proceed. But I think it's encouraging that other medical staff are reacting when they see victims of the crime.

Why? Have you spent any time living with such people? People don't have opinions in vacuums, they are a product of their society. It simply is NOT a case of hundreds of millions of people individually deciding to do nasty things to their children.

When every world view they have is different, from sex, to criminal justice - everything - then of course you are going to perceive this very differently.

So the midwife asked her whether she was closed up? She lied and said no, In these cases what do you do, rip her clothes off and check?

Aha - I am sorry, it's an individual deciding that this is what they want to do, it's not the state forcing them to its THEM!

There is no excuse or reason to use that in anyway makes this OK.

It was absolutely a case of the CPS desperately trying to find a case they could try - whatever the situation - just shocking

But the woman might not have lied - it's unlikely that she knew what a 'normal' vulva should look like. She had been 'opened' sufficiently to allow penetration to take place for conception purposes, so from her point of view she was no longer 'closed up'.

How would she know it might not be sufficiently open to allow delivery?

Reading the posts by those with no medical training makes me want to weep - there are very few professions in the uk where you are guilty until proven innocents- but medicine is one -
This doctor inserted one figure of eigt suture to stop her bleeding, to save her life essentially - what would you have liked him to do?

This doctor inserted one figure of eigt suture to stop her bleeding, to save her life essentially - what would you have liked him to do?

Known the guidelines and performed the correct procedure. The way he would have been if he were doing something besides obstetrics. If he had damaged a penis he would have gone to jail.

He acted to the best of his abilities, then pretty much immediately flagged it to a senior doctor, he didn't try to hide what had happened and asked for advice and help - he shouldn't have been persecuted for what he did, he didn't reinstate her FGM, the woman didn't make a complaint, didn't want to be called as a witness and managed to deliver another baby vaginally within a year without the need for further surgery

I don't think she lied. She had undergone surgery to open her up, she gave an honest answer as she thought the work had been done. She might have refused to go to the FGM clinic but we don't know as she was never offered the ante-natal clinic.She has however given every impression that this was a much wanted baby and would have done whatever professionals suggested was safest.

Fuckoffgroundhog - it's not a feminist issue - he wasn't found innocent because he was a man, but because he didn't do anything wrong - he was NOT GUILTY of reinstating her FGM

No, the doctor was prosecuted for allegedly reinstating her FGM,,and found innocent - he now has to face an investigation by the GMC, so his suffering will continue. He is being fully supported by the RCOG, whose president wrote a letter to all the fellows and members today - part of which said

"Unfortunately that isn’t the end of the story for Dr Dharmasena who will now be investigated by the General Medical Council, with different procedures and degrees of proof. However, this is not just about one junior doctor, obstetricians and midwives face similar scenarios daily and have now to manage the clinical complexities caused by FGM wondering if they will be the next to be accused of offences against women they are trying to help.

Dr Dhanuson Dharmasena is innocent. In an emergency situation, having never met the pregnant women, he acted to save the life of a baby. In the heat of the moment some of his clinical decisions may, with hindsight, be regarded as wrong choices. But that’s what happens in medicine. We try our best in very difficult circumstances and sometimes we don’t get it right. But obstetricians – indeed all clinical staff – must be able to exercise their clinical judgement to provide safe, high quality care for the women they serve without the shadow of prosecution."

". If he had damaged a penis he would have gone to jail."

I don't think that's true, FOGH.

It is not legitimate for the GMC to have a look but it won't stop them. Every doctor has done something not perfect, reflected, learned and become a better doctor. It doesn't need the GMC, it's a normal part of medicine.

There is a 10% mortality of doctors being investigated by the GMC. That the experience of a GMC investigation is actually making doctors kill themselves should be a national scandal.

Kundry - you are absolutely right - the experience of a GMC investigation both causes harm to doctors and indirectly causes harm to patients as doctors then practise defensive or hedging medicine - neither in the patients best interests

There has just been a paper published in the BMJ open about exactly this which hopefully will prompt change in policy
bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/1/e006687.abstract
It is shocking that doctors are presumed guilty until proved innocent

Fuckoffgroundhog - it's not a feminist issue - he wasn't found innocent because he was a man

I don't think he was found not guilty because he was a man, and I never said that at all. I think society accepts crap care for women as standard ESPECIALLY with obstetrics.

"There is a 10% mortality of doctors being investigated by the GMC"

*and yes, I think that is a feminist issue.

I agree kundry.

The real scandal is that doctors and nurses/midwives are dealing with a very difficult and stressful work load all the time. The same people who control staffing and resources are holding the threat of disciplinary action over our heads if we do not perform perfectly in spite of under staffing and underfunding.

I am so glad I don't work in obstetrics any more.

FOGH - sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote -
However it's still the case that he didn't damage her, he said with hindsight and better training he would have treated her differently, but he did his best in difficult circumstances and flagged up his concerns very soon after - he didn't leave her in pain or bleeding out,,and she was able to deliver another baby without further intervention

3littlefrogs - that's exactly the problem isn't it - threats of disciplinary action and the culture of complaints is harming doctors and nurses health and patient care - it's ridiculous!

I don't understand why given he seems to have discussed it almost immediately with a senior colleague why the decision was made to leave her as she was. Was that explained to her?

Because the stitch was put in to control bleeding, which was successful, so it was best to leave it

I feel sorry for him. She seems to have been let down at much earlier stages by inadequate note taking/ sharing of information and he bore the brunt of it in an emergency.