Confused about prostitution laws - it's basically legal, right?

[LadyBlaBlah]

So, there are clearly and blatantly brothels advertising online and elsewhere.

An example is www.sandyssuperstars.com

It is clear that this is a brothel, you can pick from a menu of sexual services.

I thought this was against the law?

I think Puffins meant that those suggesting prostitution can be tolerated/seen as a viable choice/ should be supported even by outreach workers handing out free condoms are approaching it from a very dubious standpoint.

Every person in prostitution is worth listening to.

btw Brooke Magnanti a.k.a. Belle De Jour is also an exited woman, but her views on prostitution are very different from those of Rebecca Mott's.

"The women most in a position to speak out about prostitution and sex work are those in more fortunate positions. Therefore their views and experiences are not representative."

The last bit doesn't make sense. How do we know whose views are "representative" or not? And couldn't the less fortunate ones speak out using an anonymous name if they wished to remain anonymous?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-31154896

Despite several failed attempts in recent years to pass the Nordic model in Scotland, religious groups are calling for another attempt.

I would like to point out an inaccuracy in the above article, it says the current law "criminalises the sale of sex"- this is incorrect.

And personally if such a law is to be debated I would rather hear from those with experience selling sex rather than religious groups.

"even by outreach workers handing out free condoms are approaching it from a very dubious standpoint."

The Swedish model also makes it illegal to hand out free condoms, or give any information at all to prostitutes on how to stay safe. There's a lot more to it than simply "legal to sell sex, illegal to buy sex".

I am convinced the Nordic model is the right way forward. Prostitution is debasing and dehumanising to the seller and the buyer.

Men who buy women's bodies are not being debased or dehumanised. They are doing the debasing and dehumanising.

FFS. If you think it's about "wanting to remain anonymous" then you have entirely misunderstood WHY more fortunate sex workers are more able to speak out, and vice versa.

Representative means that they represent the experiences of every or most people in that situation. We know that the majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked or coerced. We have stats on that. So, no, speaking to a high end escort, who is fully in control and can exit at any time she likes, is not representative.

Would it be representative of the views and experiences of the majority of British people to interview the Royal Family about life and culture here?

Yes, exited women who are positive about prostitution are worth listening to. The thing is there aren't many of them.

Brooke Magnanti has ruled herself out from being taken seriously. She has stated that young women being lured into prostitution was a price worth paying for her having a successful writing career.

She is a good example though of the glamourisation of the sex industry. Her experiences of shagging a rich man in a five-star hotel every few weeks or whatever have nothing to add to the discussion of how to address the experience of women in prostitution generally.

fayyive you're wrong about working in a brothel being illegal. It's legal but it's illegal to run a brothel or to profit from one.

In these conversations I always think well I don't know anyone who has told me that they have sold sex.

But one of my friends had sex with two men for 1/8 of hash when she was 15 - that would count wouldn't it?

I suppose what I'm getting at is there is a whole range of people engaged in prostitution, or who have engaged in prostitution, not all of whom are doing it as their regular or main source of income, their job if you like.

So it's kind of hard to know who to speak to about what or when. Some people will have louder voices / more opportunities to speak & be heard than others - on both sides - and so really I'm not sure that's the way forward.

People always say listen to this person or that person, don't listen to X. But surely it's a fairly basic thing whether you think prostitution is OK or not, and in what circumstances. I mean very few people who are firmly on either "side" are going to be swayed are they by listening to anyone. And it's not like all voices point in one direction.

Not sure what I'm trying to say there actually sorry

Just that maybe this all gets a bit circular. On one side we have (usually men) saying I want loads of prostitutes everywhere who are cheap and I want it to be legal to buy them. On the other side we have (mainly) women who know people who have been on the prostitute side of things, or who have been in situations where people have tried to buy them, or read things about really grim stories, and thought, well that's awful.

The two sides are never going to meet are they. There'a a total and fundamental difference in what they wish.

I know Prestwich very well, and I recognise one of the prostitutes :(

She is an old school friend of mine. He Facebook picture is the unblurred version.

"fayyive you're wrong about working in a brothel being illegal. It's legal but it's illegal to run a brothel or to profit from one."

Prostitutes who work in a brothel can be charged with running it if there aren't any pimps or anyone else involved.

"We know that the majority of women who work in prostitution are trafficked or coerced. We have stats on that. So, no, speaking to a high end escort, who is fully in control and can exit at any time she likes, is not representative."

I thought most prostitutes in Britain were escorts?

And I'd like to see the stats.

What is an "escort"? I mean, how are you defining that?

For what it's worth, here is a quote from a prostitute in Sweden regarding the Nordic model:

"Carina Edlund, Rose Alliance, Sweden, will speak about the increased stigma and discrimination resulting from of the 1999 Swedish law which criminalised clients.
“Before even thinking of a law that criminalises men who buy sex, UK politicians should hear from Swedish sex workers like myself about how we have treated under the law. We are still criminalised if we work together in apartments, we risk losing our home if we sell sex there even if we own it, social workers treat as like children and we can even lose custody of our kids because we are seen as victims suffering from a form of self-harm who can't take care of ourselves. This law should be taken away not exported to other countries.”"

from
lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/sex-workers-response-stop.html

Right and I'm sure you can find quotes from prostitutes speaking for the model if you look.

That's what I mean about it being circular.

What's an escort?

"What is an "escort"?"

In this context, I understand it to mean a prostitute who works indoors (but not from a brothel), takes bookings online or via phone and can either travel to a "client" or have the "client" travel to her place or hotel room or wherever.

So no pimp / 3rd party involved? With the bookings and so on.

So they work alone and entirely independently. Is that it?

"So no pimp / 3rd party involved? "

Would vary from individual to individual.

Do you think an escort is something else?

I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say "I thought most prostitutes in Britain were escorts?".

As in, how are you defining Escort when you say that.

The term "escort" does not equal "high end escort". Escorts can be any woman working indoors but they could also be pimped, abused, on drugs, trafficked, forced etc.

So how do we know for certain who is representative and who isn't?

I can kind of imagine what is meant by "high end escort" so got that but the "most are escorts" bit I didn't get, so clarification would be great. So as to know who is "in" and who is "out" of that "most are this" grouping IYSWIM.

No no no!

Just you said "most prostitutes in Britain are escorts" and I would like to understand what you mean when you say that. What are you defining "escort" as?

An escort is a prostitute who prefers the word escort to prostitute.

Prostitutes on the street for example aren't "escorts"