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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Who to vote for as a feminist

419 replies

WorkingBling · 20/01/2015 11:27

I am really struggling ahead of the elections. I have decided that commitment to feminist principals needs to be a strong part of my voting decision making process. But I honestly am not sure this helps.

Lib dems have terrible track record and while I like nick's wife, I can't vote for a party where there's only one woman I am impressed by.

Instinctively i am more of a labour supporter but with the exception of Harriet H I honestly feel underwhelmed by their female representation and view on women.

This leaves the conservatives. There are a number of woman in the party who impress me. But Dave doesn't strike me as a man who really believes in feminist principals.

Help please. All you lovely informed women must have some thoughts.

OP posts:
Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:13

I think they all have to now anyway Yonic what with the free school meals? I may be wrong though!

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:18

I am hoping these chunks are helping people at least see that this is a party that does think about women? And families?

Seeing as I keep seeing things about nurses having to work longer hours for less pay, this may be of interest;

NHS workers
HE363 For too long the workers in the NHS have been underpaid, undervalued and ignored. They remain some of the most overworked in our society despite the importance of their day-to-day decisions and actions. The multitude of local staff contracts and conditions will be simplified within a clear regional structure. Privatisation of ancillary services will cease and be reversed, so that all NHS workers of a particular grade can expect the same terms within the same region. Collective bargaining arrangements will be strengthened and honoured. A particularly urgent commitment will be to reduce all staff working hours to a maximum in line with the Working Time Directive.

HE364 The Green Party deplores the poaching of healthcare professionals from other less privileged countries. Conditions and wages of nurses, and also doctors, need to rise to encourage more British people to train as nurses and doctors.
The NHS will not be allowed proactively to recruit non-British healthcare staff overseas by any means, including overseas advertising or direct approaches.
The Green Party will actively seek ways of ensuring that healthcare skills are shared between countries including by offering exchange opportunities to students and qualified staff.

YonicScrewdriver · 25/01/2015 18:25

They all have to provide dinners up to the end of KS1 but I think the dinners can be shipped in?

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:28

Now, I don't know but does this provision possibly rule out the way that some parents get out of paying maintenance (i.e becoming self employed, 'employing' their partner and splitting the profits so they can say they are on minimum wage and pay the minimum for their kids). I may be reading it incorrectly?

WR303 Registers of genuinely self-employed workers will be set up in appropriate industries e.g. construction. Businesses using non registered labour will be automatically deemed to be employers.

YonicScrewdriver · 25/01/2015 18:31

I don't think that's the goal of it!

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:34

Yonic do they not have to be heated up? I assumed schools all had a basic kitchen at least - I can't find anything to clarify, even the govt website doesn't make it clear, other than they give 'transitional funding' to help with equipment.

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:36

Hehehe! I doubt it is, but that would possibly be the most feminist policy of all time if it did that job too!

PuffinsAreFictitious · 25/01/2015 18:37

No, a large numbers of schools got rid of their kitchens. So those schools now have to bring in meals which are kept hot in vans for God alone knows how long before they're served.

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:40

Shock I didn't realise that Puffins. Doesn't sound very tasty, but I guess the idea is to ensure all kids have 1 hot meal in a day, so perhaps the ones who need it most don't worry about that so much.

I've got to put DD to bed soon, so I won't take up any more thread. I obviously like the Green's, by and large, and hope some of these points have been interesting at least!

Lioninthesun · 25/01/2015 18:48

Last one (I know I said I was off!) but seeing as women as a class are easily discriminated against, this seemed apt for feminism too;

Discrimination

WR320 The Green Party believes that every worker has the right not to be discriminated against and to be treated with equality in equivalent circumstances.

WR321 The Green Party will support and improve legislation to make it an offence to harass or discriminate directly or indirectly against people at work, on grounds of race, sex, family status or responsibilities, disability, sexual orientation, religious belief, age, political opinion or physical appearance. This will include people who are disadvantaged by reason of resistance to discrimination.

WR322 The new Labour Courts will produce Codes of practice covering indirect discrimination and it shall be an offence to be found repeatedly flouting such codes. They will also produce guidelines about what constitutes a genuine "occupational requirement".

WR323 Every person should have an opportunity to challenge an employer who has "wrongly & unfairly refused to employ them", or failed to provide equal access to training & promotion. They will be assisted by the local team of inspectors in doing this, although the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality), the DRC (Disability Rights Commission) and the EOC (Equal Opportunities Commission) will have a supportive role. The Industrial Tribunal will have the power to enforce a recommendation for appropriate action in the following ways:

an increase in salary, and/or promotion.
compensation (e.g. if self employed).
(re)instatement
Employment & Redundancy
WR330 Workers should be protected from the first day of employment and there should be no minimum qualifying hours per week. An exception covering only the "right to a job" and "compensation for redundancy" may be made in some cases. This exception shall require the agreement of both employer and employee. It will last for a trial period of 3 months, renewable for one 3 month period by agreement of both parties.

WR331 Employers should have to consult with workers and justify any redundancies, by proving that such job losses where unavoidable and/or in the public interest. Selection would be subject to guidelines in a Code issued by the Labour Courts.

WR332 Casual work and short term contracts shall not be used as a way of avoiding statutory rights. An employee may challenge the employer to show that such contracts can be justified (e.g. temporary reductions in the workforce, or exceptional increase in activity, the limited nature of the workload or task). Short term contracts may only be offered for short term work.

WR333 We shall offer more protection to people who are dismissed because circumstances beyond their control "frustrate" them from carrying out the terms of their contract at that particular time

WR334 - CVs should be anonymised during the hiring procedure to prevent pre-interview discrimination on the basis of an individual’s race or gender.

WR335 - We would require public sector employers to adopt policies aimed at attracting and recruiting candidates from a wide range of minority groups. These should include proactive efforts to advertise in and reach out to minority communities, providing representative selection panels, and making reasonable adjustments throughout the process to empower minority groups.

WR336 - The Green Party would also support workers’ rights to use their allotted holiday to observe religious holidays, cultural celebrations and secular observances that are important to them. The Green Party would also review how national holidays are currently set, with a view to recognising more national holidays in the annual calendar, to greater recognise and accommodate religious, cultural and secular celebrations in the year.

FloraFox · 25/01/2015 18:51

Lion the Rupert Read situation is also anti-feminist. I agree with the Glosswitch article I linked above on this topic.

I just don't see a coherent approach from the Greens. It seems to be a rag bag of pet projects that party activists have been able to have adopted. I agree with Phaedra that it is a libertarian approach to prostitution not liberal but many of the policies, including the ones you've posted here, are very much statist or even nanny state approaches.

My concern then is that the issues they actually promote when they are horse-trading are hard to determine and will probably come down to the views held by the MPs who are elected.

FloraFox · 25/01/2015 18:55

To address another point, "women as a class" doesn't mean that women are Borg and operate on the hive mind. Lots of different factors will also affect a woman's life including economic class, social class, race, sexuality and disability as well as individual outlook on life and political views.

IMO being a feminist doesn't mean women don't recognise the impact of those other factors but it does recognise the experience of women as a class. For example, access to reproductive health affects all women no matter what other classes they are also in. Also, not every aspect of discrimination based on sex affects every woman or every woman in the same way. That doesn't mean that discrimination based on sex doesn't exist.

I honestly struggle to conceive of what feminism might mean if you don't view women as a class of people.

Justanotherlurker · 25/01/2015 19:39

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30973388

PetulaGordino · 25/01/2015 22:45

Thanks for the link justanotherlurker - do you also have any thoughts on that?

PuffinsAreFictitious · 25/01/2015 22:48

Shall we all gather our skirts about ourselves? Immediately decide to vote what? Tory? UKIP?

PhaedraIsMyName · 25/01/2015 23:46

Thank you for posting the excerpts from their manifesto. It saves me the trouble of reading it. It reads very much like the SNP 's White Paper pre the referendum. Basically an uncosted wish list.

Or Tommy Sheridan's party , whatever it was called.

Lioninthesun · 26/01/2015 07:48

The manifesto will be out in March.
I have to say I do agree with her sentiment that you cannot police what people think, and being a member of any group doesn't mean you will be violent or a criminal.

Aren't all policies from all parties basically a wish list? I understand it's easier to see a party's ideals if they have been in power already, and their policies can back up what they did previously, but choosing between just 2 and having to fit into their boxes completely has never sat well with me. I have eclectic music tastes and don't know why politics should be any less reflective of who I am or what I believe.

ethelb · 26/01/2015 10:17

I went to a presentation by the London Prostitutes Collective and they said to be weary of voting for the Greens based on prostitution laws as they allow a conscience clause on this for members. They really don't think it will account to much.

Bohemond · 26/01/2015 10:27

Joining the thread late. I shall be voting on a local basis for the best candidate in my constituency. I strongly believe in politics from the ground up - good candidates of whatever hue make for better government in my opinion. She happens to be the Conservative candidate and I have been working on her campaign as I would like to see her representing me and other women in my constituency in parliament.

Lioninthesun · 26/01/2015 10:39

All men here where I am. None of them have mentioned women or any issues relating to family in any discussions to date. Saving fields and historic architecture or building more student housing, yes. Labour candidate has been classed as 'extremist' and the Lib Dem and Greens seem to be very similar. It's been a conservative seat for around 30 years. I'm disenchanted with all of them if I am honest. Where I live is a very student dense area, which can be great but also means the housing market here is very hard for families - every family home has been split up into separate rooms to enable students to rent. 1 in 5 people here is a student and it does feel as though the town has been taken over with little regard to families who want to live and work here.

BoffinMum · 26/01/2015 13:26

That list of Green employment policies is nuts.

I spent a very difficult pregnancy once effectively doing two jobs, as another woman flounced off on maternity leave leaving no proper arrangements in place, for no other reason than she couldn't really be bothered, and then after extended maternity leave, during which time several other pregnant people and young parents had kept the ship afloat, she marched back, arranged to go part time quoting her 'rights', then demanded 200 other people fit around her child's part-time nursery place to save herself money, again quoting her 'rights', even though it would have meant extra expense and chaos for all the other parents working with her, and expressed genuine surprise when the rest of us politely told her to feck off and read a book on team playing. I mean, there's flexibility, and there's asking people to bend over and take it up the arse.

I fear if the Greens get in this will become par for the course and we will end up with employment chaos and nothing getting done.

WorkingBling · 26/01/2015 13:47

This has been really intresting. I haven't come back to comment much as I didn't feel I had a lot to add. However, all this support for the Greens made me think and Lion's info about what they would like to do was interesting.

I like that they are so focused on women and families, but I a not a fan of parties that are completely unrealistic. How are they going to finance all these changes? what will be cut elsewhere or who will be taxed more to pay for more schools, one on one maternity care etc? I'd love all of those things - our area had an entire school's worth more applications for reception this year than last year so it's a real worry for us - but I'd like to see some sense that they actually know what they're talking about.

Libby Purves in the Times today made some good points about this and I think it's valid. I increasingly feel I am going ot have to vote labour, assuming my local candidates are up to the job.

OP posts:
Lioninthesun · 26/01/2015 16:13

Yes taxes will increase, but the top will be taxed relatively for their income which is more than it is now. I think I saw that a full breakdown and costings will be in their March manifesto. I think their policies are very detailed and therefore in reality won't all be put into practice if they got in, but they have seemingly thought through things in far more detail than other parties. If they can show a proper budget for their main policies then they will be worth a look IMO. I'm still open for someone to change my mind though, but so far I haven't seen any posts on here from the other parties pledging anything for women or families.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 26/01/2015 18:44

The greens are a bunch of fruitcakes. They have no credible economic strategy. They are in la la land.

I will vote Conservative. I like Theresa May who is our MP.

howtodrainyourflagon · 26/01/2015 20:10

It doesn't really matter who I vote for. I live in a safe Tory seat so I am doomed to be forever represented by a double-barrelled middle aged white male backbencher who I've written to twice and who hasn't bothered to reply. I look forward to European elections (I know I'm in the minority here) because in these my vote actually counts for something.