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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

shared parental leave - pissed off

49 replies

Chalalala · 20/11/2014 12:36

DH just doesn't think it's a good idea for us. He says that time off doesn't really work with his line of work (kind of true - but then the same can be said of most jobs). He also says that his boss would not be happy about it (also probably true because his boss is sexist, and while he obviously couldn't technically refuse, DH's advancement does depend on him directly and he could pay for it down the line).

I can already feel that I will give in and take the whole parental leave for myself. Because no one in my job will judge me for it (of course they won't! I'm a woman!), and also because I don't honestly mind that much in practice, it's mostly for the principle that I want DH to take part of the parental leave. (And so he can see for himself what it's like to be at home with 2 DCs under 3!)

To think that I actually think of myself as a feminist, and I may not even make it happen in my own home. Is there no hope?!!!!

Not sure if I'm looking for advice on my particular situation, or just wanting to rant at my DH. Or just wanting to rant at the structural unfairness that makes positive laws such as this so difficult to take advantage of in practice.

OP posts:
alicemalice · 21/11/2014 19:14

This thread reminds me of this article

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jul/05/childcare-men-pull-weight

Chunderella · 21/11/2014 19:24

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ROARmeow · 21/11/2014 19:53

that's a really good article.

irishe · 21/11/2014 19:57

I equally split parental leave with my DP. 6 months each.

Here are my musings on the experience.

  • Historically (back in our twenties) prior to fertility issues, and my own health issues, we had discussed and agreed DP would be SAHP initially. This was based on our personalities and preferences. We both earned equal salaries so no economic driver for one or other to be the SAHP.
  • life threw us a few wobblers, inc serious ill health for me, that resulted in me leaving the workforce for a number of years. Then discovered infertility which eventually led to adoption route to family. when it came to the reality of taking time off work, we both knew DP would want to take a substantial lump of it. I was back in work (different career, half of DP salary) so we split it equally.

Because the adoption was very much a planned for family, we saved over a period of time the money needed to facilitate the major wage earner taking 6 months off. How did DP's 100 per cent male colleagues including his boss, view this? I was curious so had asked. DP's response was that those who commented were always positive, ranging from "you lucky bastard" to "I would have loved to do that" (from those who had older children). DP believes his colleagues were genuinely happy for him. He has been back at work a few years now, with no impact on his career. He works in the private sector, in a senior technical role , not managerial.

Pertinent issues for us, which will differ for everyone.

DP has always been very "hands on" domestically and much more interested in cooking and keeping a tidy house than I am. Basically I am saying, he has always been keen to do as much as he could, no persuasion needed to do domestic work or take parental leave off. No concept of this is female or male domain. His views on shared leave stem from his views on shared parenting, "why wouldn't I?

Also relevant, age and professional skill set, he is in his forties, has a skill set desirable to his employer. By this I mean he is older and well established in his career, he is not still having "to prove himself" as happens in earlier career stages and knows his worth, both to his own employer and other potential employers (read, not trapped with this employer).

His personality type is very self contained, he appears to not care what anyone else thinks of his decision, the only important consideration "is it right for our family?". Thinking about it, maybe that is why he only had positive responses? Either colleagues who felt negatively did not comment, knowing they would get short shift, or he did not "hear" them, being of no consequence to him. Or they really were all lovely and supportive, who knows?

I had many conversations with mostly female friends who had children on this subject. Some commented "my DP would not have been keen" but did not expand on why. I only remember one chat where a friend stated her husbands boss would not like it as the boss had made a big deal of not taking his full 2 weeks paternity leave. More than one commented that they would not like having to share the leave with partners, which made me realise that shared parental leave would not always be welcomed.

My DP mother was a SAHP who gave up work when he was born and did not work out of the home again. I think the fact his dad worked long hours and he rarely saw him as a young child (in bed when he got home) has had an impact, he has mentioned not wanting that set up for his children.

This has turned into a major epistle, but it's a subject I find interesting. The law is gradually becoming more equal in this area, but societal attitudes can sometimes lag behind, with both men and women being resistant to change.

Fwiw, this was not a decision taken by my family that was influenced by my feminism. well not consciously. i think the strongest factor was my DP's determination to be as fully involved in family life as he could be, so any oppprtunity that was possible was grabbed.

Each family needs to do what is right for them. I don't think there is a right or wrong, as long as both partners are happy with the choice that is eventually made. I do wonder how many parents have the "choice" more or less made for them though.

broccoliear · 21/11/2014 20:05

What's interesting though is that most men see their wife/partner as the default. Whereas if a woman doesn't want to/can't look after her child, she assumes she will use childcare. So your DH, in saying he won't take, for example, the latter 6 months, is assuming that you will do it. Or is he assuming you'll put a 6 month old in ft childcare?

irishe · 21/11/2014 20:16

That's a good point broccoli.

I would have been very surprised if my partner had assumed I would take all the parental leave. It is different obviously with adoption, as there is no physical recovery/breast feeding.

There is an assumption generally that women are the default carers in society, whether it suits their personality or not.

Snow1 · 21/11/2014 20:23

"I like the suggestion of a shorter parental leave for him. A few weeks is definitely enough to get the idea Grin"

Did you ask him about this? It's difficult for him/ his boss to argue since it's not really any different to a long holiday in terms of the time off work.

Chunderella · 21/11/2014 21:32

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carrie456 · 21/11/2014 21:35

Dh is a SAHD and has lots of male friends that are doing the same. This is due to their wives outearning them and them being more suited to it. I think its much more commonplace nowadays.

carrie456 · 21/11/2014 21:43

I will also add I went back at 2 weeks postpartum. I am out 7-5 or 7-6. Dh cooks all meals from scratch and looks after 3 children. He finds it a lot easier than working and said he would happily never go back.

I think after a couple of years he will just go part time in something.

whatdoesittake48 · 22/11/2014 00:00

I just wrote an article on this today related to the benefits for employers. I think we are a long way from this becoming anything like the norm. I argued that an employer will attract better and more dedicated staff if they encourage men and women equally to rear children. Of we know in the real world people don't think like that. A study I looked at found that the majority of me feared for their careers if they took time off despite almost 70% saying they liked the idea.
This final point is so sad. Legislation change may level the playing field but attitudes keep us down and it will take many years for that too change.
I would link to my article but it would out me. ... sorry. Sad

unclerory · 22/11/2014 01:28

DH and I discussed him taking APL when I was pregnant with DC3 but for us it wasn't the best option. We both work part time anyway but DH was able to go back to full time for a year while I was on maternity leave so that worked better for us from a financial viewpoint. He'd already earned his feminist stripes by working part time once I went back after DC1 though and knows what it's like at home with three under 5 (yes, we were that mad) which means when I was on maternity leave he would come in, take one look at me and know if today was a day to say 'go and lie down and have a rest and I'll give the kids their tea'.

Zazzles007 · 22/11/2014 02:20

...take one look at me and know if today was a day to say 'go and lie down and have a rest and I'll give the kids their tea'.

That is heartwarming, he has earned his feminist stripes indeed. Please give him a cookie Grin

Terrifiedandregretful · 22/11/2014 09:31

In answer to your question Yonic, there are no women with children in the whole company, which says it all really. I'm sure if one of the female staff got pregnant she would take leave, I also think they would then do everything in their power to get rid of her/not pay her. It's a non unionised industry and they are cowboys. Dp has saved up a load of leave so he can take 1 day a week off with dd for the next few months. He'd love to go part time but as he has just seen the two part time staff squeezed out, he doesn't dare ask. It's shit because I took longer leave than I wanted to and became very depressed at home. But we can't pay the mortgage on my salary alone. Our situation is different to ops in that dp did actively want to take the leave, but we were both too scared. Sometimes I feel he should have taken a stand, but I suspect he would have then been a victim of constructive dismissal and we would be selling our home.

Terrifiedandregretful · 22/11/2014 09:36

What depresses me, aside from my own situation, is the amount of women who, when shared parental leave is discussed, say 'shh, don't tell my husband!' The only people I know in real life who have shared parental leave are a lesbian couple. I was going to be a pioneer and do my bit to change the world....

Chunderella · 22/11/2014 09:57

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prashad · 22/11/2014 11:24

Where I work, a lot of women are adamant that they will not allow their husbands/partners to share the leave.

Unfortunately, I work in the sort of place and at the sort of level that could firmly be described as a 'job' rather than a 'career'. People come in, do their shift, and leave... so none of the women are particularly eager to return to work afterwards.

Since the choice to share the parental leave is theirs alone, they force their husbands/partners back to instead. Sad.

TheBeanpole · 22/11/2014 12:13

almondcakes I agree with that- sorry did I sound like I thought she should convince him? I didn't mean that at all, more that I think it forms part of the normal discussion around what's going to happen, and that as broccoli says not assume the default.

LilyMagenta · 27/03/2015 11:43

Five months down the line, I'm interested to know if anyone in this thread has got a Shared Parental Leave arrangement lined up, or knows someone who has. I'm writing about SPL for a national newspaper, but stories of couples who are taking advantage of the new regulations are proving pretty elusive so far. HR departments of big employers are telling me "no one's applied yet" & I'm wondering if this is because people aren't aware of SPL, or because companies haven't yet got policies in place to make SPL a realistic alternative to maternity leave, or because very few families are in a position to make use of the new legislation. Any thoughts?

YonicScrewdriver · 27/03/2015 17:07

Lily, BIS have paid for a thread on this - you might have more luck there as it's current.

LittleMy1 · 29/03/2015 14:37

Re the statement "DH's advancement does depend on him directly and he could pay for it down the line". I am not questioning that this would happen but lets remember it works both ways.

I am about to discuss maternity leave and while i will not take very much off i know it will be held against me when it comes to salary negotiations.

sashh · 29/03/2015 15:38

This is why paternity leave should be compulsory

gallicgirl · 29/03/2015 15:54

Lily I would hazard a guess that no one's applied because they either don't know or can't afford.

Having looked at finances, I'll be going back to work when SMP runs out and we can't afford for either of us to take unpaid leave.

slugseatlettuce · 29/03/2015 17:18

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