Anyone else see the army idiot on BBC Breakfast this morning?

[cailindana]

Apparently, women shouldn't be in infantry platoons because cohesion is essential for such groups and a "mixed agenda" (wtaf that is) group will lack cohesion.

In other words, men won't work with women, so women should stay away.

Oh and apparently we don't see women in premier league football games or playing rugby for England so therefore they shouldn't fight in wars. Excellent logic there.

"You could have all-women units."

I think that would be an immensely bad idea. It makes women "other" again, thus reversing everything that has been achieved (in nigh on everything except infantry, artillery, tanks and submarines) since the abolition of WRAC and WREN.

There are numerous examples in history of successful all-women units.

The Russian 1077th Anti-Aircraft Regiment that fought off a Panzer advance at Stalingrad during world war 2. Panzer divisions at the time were the most feared things in the whole war.

In fact, most of the examples I can think of were from Russia. It's unfortunately that it takes a war weary nation faced with imminent invasion and defeat by the nazis before the top brass consider using women in front line combat roles.

meditrina, I posted my last post before I had seen yours.

In my opinion, you should have mixed-gender units. I think they would operate just fine.

All I'm saying is that IF the military leaders think that the reason for not doing so is 'evidence' that units before less well when mixed gender due to the behaviours that male soldiers have... then that's not much of a reason because it does not serve as a argument for women being in front line combat roles per se.

meditrina - I agree, it's not a good idea, but it does negate the comments and (hopefully) make people think a little more. Which was DS's point.

No-one is doubting that women can fight.

But women only units are not the answer. Unless you want to have women essentially sidelined, for you are not comparing super-fit women against the general population of men, up you are comparing them to similarly super-fit men and they will come second. So they will not get the more challenging tasking - not from prejudice, but from physical performance. And that will feed reputation and over time become a whole new stereotype.

Most parts of the armed forces are fully integrated. And in such units, women (who are now expected to be seen anywhere, even in certain infantry roles) are going to find that acceptance is much more likely to be merit, not sex, based.

PuffinsAreFicticious

I'd really never heard of it before. Just had a quick google to find out and have seen the noen/adjective thing. I've always just viewed them as interchangeable, and absolutely not as something negative.

Sorry Snow? I have no clue what you're talking about.

In other words, men won't work with women, so women should stay away.

Gosh, I have heard an even worse explanation than this - I have seen in a new program here, a military man say that the men would spend all their time chasing women, and it would cause fights between the men and thus division . Or is this just a reflection of the highly sexist/misogynistic society I live in?

They're all meant to be fighting for the same cause?

I agree with this - although I don't know the specifics, surely in any military team, each individual would have differing roles, and you train people to stick to those roles no matter what. Are these military people saying that they can't over-ride the social conditioning [or whatever] that men have, and get the team to play out their assigned roles when there are women on the team? What happens in other mixed groups, like orchestras? As far as I know, there is no more/less pandemonium in an orchestra that has men and women, vs those made up of just men or just women. What odd reasoning these people have!

prashad, go read that article I linked will you? It demolishes most of what you're saying.

I read an article he wrote in the Times and he came across just as ignorantly there. The cohesion argument has been made against including mixed race regiments, mixed religion regiments and allowing homosexual soldiers into the army in the past, so now it's time to take a pot at women.

Incidentally, for someone who seems to be quite "up" on the situation in the ME, he doesn't seem to realise that a third of the Kurdish YPG in Syria are female and are considered the most dedicated and therefore best fighters.