Will Misogyny bring down the atheist movement?

[Spero]

It's a long article, but quite interesting about the problems some skeptics/atheists seem to have with women and asks why a progressive, important and intellectual community can behave so poorly towards its female peers.

www.buzzfeed.com/markoppenheimer/will-misogyny-bring-down-the-atheist-movement

I quote: The roots of today’s crisis can be found in the post-war history of the movement. The groups that make up the broader freethought community — atheists, who don’t believe in a god; agnostics, who are unsure; secular humanists, who seek to replace god-centered religion with a man-made ethical system; church-state separationists, who just want religion kept out of public life; and scientific skeptics, who work to overthrow superstition and pseudoscience — have two things in common. First, they oppose the hegemony of religious, including New Age, thinking in American culture. And second, they all have roots in very male subcultures.

So am I being naive in pledging allegiance first to humanism rather than feminism? Are the problems in male subcultures so deep rooted that my energies should be first directed at tackling those?

Interested to hear what other atheist feminists think.

No I think they are different. The article link only has a small bit actually about athiests

I have no idea who Rebecca Watson is but the abuse is tragic. The fact that it centers on rape, calling cunt etc, people obviously want to make it as much as possible about taking control away from her in the most basic crudest way. Making it shameful to be a woman.

No idea if that makes sense 'out loud'. If not I'll just hang it with all the other stuff I'm currently failing at and blame it on sleep deprivation too.

This selection of Elizabeth Cady Stanton's writings is interesting - in particular the final sentence.
"Many a man who advocated equality most eloquently for a Southern plantation, could not tolerate it at his own fireside."

It doesn't surprise me to find misogyny in atheist groups - any more than it surprises me to find it in theist groups, left wing groups, right wing groups... I'm more surprised not to find it these days. But maybe I'm just a cynical old crone

Snug, it makes sense.

The reason why atheism:sexism are strange bedfellows is that most mainstream religions are patriarchal in nature (god the father and the son etc) so atheism/atheists might not be.

Unfortunately Dawkins, for one, comes out with some corkers..

Yonic, but atheism isn't in a vacuum from society

Whilst some atheists may be misogynists I don't think they are misogynists because they are atheists. The article doesn't really draw any causal links apart from some very tenuous links between 'freethought' movement and some anti-feminist views. Sadly I can think of many aspects of organised religion which serve to oppress women.

Surely an atheist is defined as someone who does not believe in God. You can't expect them to have anything else in common.

Thanks for info on elevatorgate. Like most spats it seems it's something that just ended up detracting from the real issues.

Agree with pps, fair share of misogyny everywhere. Patriarchy is not just a religious construct. Is misogyny and patriarchy the same thing.

Unlike religion where, within a faith, there will be certain commonly held beliefs like abortion, the ONLY thing which ties us atheists is not believing in a God/gods.

That doesn't say anything else about about us as a person. Being a horrible misogynist is entirely separate from that person's atheism. Unlike religion, atheism has no structural misogyny (don't know the right phrase, but you know what I mean) because there is no structure.

Depressing. I had hoped that once freed from structural misogyny - which most would seem to agree is inbuilt into most religions - I would see a different approach. But it does seem that for many their ingrained response is to react to a woman saying something they don't like, by threatening her with rape and/or death.

Agree, Spero.

After re-reading Watson's Page o Hate I think I have to now identify as a feminist because the people who are hating on feminism seem so utterly, utterly vile.

Hoorah!

But boo to how vile it was, I couldn't get past five posts.

Not RTFT

BUT I think misogyny is in religion because people created religion and people have been misogynist for a long time. I wouldn't expect atheism to be free of misogyny for the same reasons.

I'll have a proper read and think tomorrow but basically I'd quite like to poke Dawkins in the eye with a spork.

That was not the question you asked thought was it.

Spero, I still don't understand how you know that the trolls on Rebecca's page are athiests? I asked earlier but I still don't get it, can you enlighten me please?

Maybe it's the wrong assumption, but the hate really took off after Dawkins posted his vile remarks. Certainly in the early days the haters seemed to identify as skeptics. Don't know about the more recent stuff.

Dawkins response to Elevator gate was pretty nasty and dismissive and that seemed to encourage others from the skeptic movement to pile in. Sad thing was they seemed to need very little encouragement.

Just interests me that the initial response was so hostile, as if dislike and contempt for women was bubbling very close to the surface.

Why would anyone think an atheist would have more compassion for women than a follower of Christ would?

Spero, none of the trolls on there identify as athiests. They don't identify as anything apart from men and women.
I think what attracts people to these things is media attention. Probably the same way you were attracted to elevatorgate.
If they were identifying themselves as skeptics, which I can't believe is true on social media, how many identified as athiest?
Not that I think there is a link between atheism and misogyny.

Sicksquid, the followers of Christ have had 2000 years to not cover themselves in glory in this respect. Whereas any sort of coherent atheist voice is more 'something new under the sun'.

I think in many ways I'm not surprised by this - my first reaction is 'really!?' and then I remember how the world works and think, oh, yeah.

Have had similar issues with Lib Dems approach to sexual harassment, you kind of instinctively assume that people sharing one part of your own world view will share the rest of it too... but there's no real reason why that should be so I guess.

Sicksquid, I am not asking for 'compassion' just not to be threatened with death/rape if I say something that a man doesn't like.

King, I accept none of the recent trolls seem to identify as atheists/skeptics. But they did when it all kicked off; it was as if they had permission from Dawkins or possibly wanted to suck up to him.

If anyone needs reminding what he said, or indeed was not aware of what he said, I think it bears repeating - its on the rational wiki link.

Dear Muslima,
Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and...yawn...don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with. Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so...And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Goddess, Dawkins is an insufferable toss pot.