Victoria's Secret giant TV screens

[mamabear35]

I want to bang my head against the wall. Victoria's Secret has just opened a shop in my local shopping centre. It is the size of about three shops and very hard to miss. Along one wall are giant 12 foot high television screens showing a Victoria's Secret catwalk show on a loop all day everyday... Think models very scantily dressed.

As a mother of two young girls I am in despair. How am I supposed to teach them to love and respect their bodies when they are so blatantly objectified in such a public place. To make it worse the issue was raised on Facebook with one mother saying she found it offensive and the amount of women who came on to defend Victoria's Secret was terrifying. The argument of "well scantily clad women are everywhere there's no point in trying to change the world" or I shit you not "stop being such a prude"were all voiced here. I weighed in with my opinion but now I am just depressed. Someone please come along and tell me I'm not losing my mind.

How can this be happening in 2014 and what can we do about it?

It would be nice to see a mixture of real women's shapes and sizes, ladies with all sorts of normal figures promoting a brands designs one day.

It's so repetitive and formulaic how the fashion marketing industry always uses the same look, the same barbiedoll women, the same bland sexless shapeless stick figures...

It's not that VS are objectifying women or that there is 'pornification' going on here, because honestly how else is an underwear company supposed to promote underwear other than show the garments on some beautiful women.

The problem is how narrow the concept of "the perfect body" is. Always the same type, thin and lifeless.

They show nothing but a complete lack of originality, forward thinking and sensitivity to their target consumer with this campaign. That is what I find offensive. I am not offended by ladies wearing underwear.

I am not offended by women wearing underwear - but these 'perfect' women all conform to a stereotype ie big breasts, small waists/bums/ thighs, waxed to the extreme. We managed to buy underwear in years gone by without this kind of imagery, but the sexualisation of just about everything (I exaggerate for effect, obv) means that many young women (and men) are growing up to believe this is the norm. I find that really sad. I would imagine that if they used 'normal' body shapes then sales would fall, simply because we have been conditioned to think this sexualised body image is normal when it comes to selling.

m.marksandspencer.com/mt/www.marksandspencer.com/embroidered-non-padded-spacer-dd-gg-bra-with-cool-comfort-technology/p/p22309340?jsrl=stop&un_jtt_redirect

Here is a bra advert showing the bra but not in a sexualised way.

That's crap op

Sorry Sonic wha do you mean?

I don't think a store has to have twelve foot high tv screens to sell their products but really made all the worse that practically naked girls are strutting around and then taking on very seductive poses. If that's not objectifying women im not sure what is? Come look at these beautiful women as sex objects! I am trying to teach my children about their private parts remaining private when these images are shoved down their throats.
They have so little good female role models and heroes to aspire to as it is that the first time they see women truly celebrated it is because they have unrealistic skinny bodies with huge breasts walking around leaving very little to the imagination. We have so far still to go.

The one I saw was in Brent Cross too. It's hard to miss and very disconcerting.

I'm definitely up for sending a letter of complaint - I haven't been to Brent Cross for a while now, I'm surprised they have done that as it has usually had a very family friendly feel to it.

I agree it would be great if MN could back us up with this?

OP, I was trying to show an underwear ad that showed the bra on a woman, but not in a sexualised way, IYSWIM. It can be done!

Mamabear I think Sonic meant the situation in the shopping centre is crap.

Have posted letter to centre - will let you know response.

Agree it would be great if Mumsnet could get involved, particularly around the unavoidable screens.

Now only 4.5 K signatures needed on petition re Perfect Body.

Oh yes, that is what I meant, the situation is crap!

Nearly 21,000 now signed the petition - here's the link again:
www.change.org/p/victoriassecret-apologise-for-your-damaging-perfect-body-campaign-iamperfect

Woo hoo! That is fantastic! Thank you to all those MNers who have signed the petition and have encouraged others to sign as well . (Btw, its not my petition)

Only 2669 signatures needed now

Empire, I completely agree with you. We need to be very careful here. There are women with model bodies or similar traits and they shouldn't feel ashamed of their body shape. Surely the point isn't 'hide all the women of a particular body shape', but rather 'show a wider range of body shapes' in advertising.

'We managed to buy underwear in years gone by without this kind of imagery.'
Yes we did, but that's because:
a) The idealistic proportions of women were different in the past. So it was the same issue as it is now, just with a different set of expectations being shown to the public.
b) Prior to that underwear was something to be ashamed of buying and shoppers would have to ask for it to be brought out from under the counter.

I have no problem with advertising underwear using models (yes even on great big billboards) but I do agree that the models used should show a variety of healthy body types and the sexualising of the images (through poses etc) should be curtailed.

I've just signed the petition. I saw that advert last week and it really annoyed me. I think VS is opening in Birmingham soon so no doubt we'll have the huge screens to contend with too.
I have no issue with an underwear shop using images of women in underwear to advertise their products but I wish they would use a variety of women in all shapes and sizes so that young girls get the idea that all women's bodies are beautiful and there is no 'perfect'. I worry for my tiny baby daughter growing up surrounded by these messages.

a) The idealistic proportions of women were different in the past. So it was the same issue as it is now, just with a different set of expectations being shown to the public.
b) Prior to that underwear was something to be ashamed of buying and shoppers would have to ask for it to be brought out from under the counter

I'm talking about 30/40 years ago in the 70s and 80s when I was young, and even in the 60s. The idealistic proportions then were not such that the advertising of underwear was on a par with VS Perfect Body (which is what we are discussing here), nor was it brought out from under the counter. In fact, you'd have to go back a good few years before that was the case.

Signed. Its just all pervasive.

Apologies for not making it clearer Sir, yes I was of course talking about pre1900 with the under the counter issue. But it's all important and relevant social history.

'I'm talking about 30/40 years ago in the 70s and 80s when I was young, and even in the 60s. The idealistic proportions then were not such that the advertising of underwear was on a par with VS Perfect Body.'
I want old enough to be particularly aware of my surroundings during these decades so could you clarify for me? From what I see in ads of the past there are specific body images being portrayed that are unrealistic of the varied bodies of 'real women'. I'm struggling to see a difference in underwear advertising then vs now except the disgusting abuse of photoshopping. I'm not being argumentative, just genuinely curious.

wasn't*

There wasn't much poster advertising of underwear before the 1980s ('Hello Boys')

Shop displays were on plastic mannequins, which did indeed often have bizarre proportions. But they were simply display dummies, not selling a "lifestyle"

What Auntie said.

I also remember the Hello Boys campaign - it was the first of its time, was very much aimed at blokes as opposed to women, caused a massive stir and made us think about our bodies in a not necessarily positive way. It sold bras, certainly, but it was one of the first overtly sexualised image of women used to sell bras that I remember. There may have been others, but it certainly had a massive impact on me - for the first time I really thought "I don't look like that" and felt v inadequate.

They only need 1,100 signatures to reach their target of 25,000 . For those who would like to sign the petition, here is the link again:

www.change.org/p/victoriassecret-apologise-for-your-damaging-perfect-body-campaign-iamperfect

Also, you can complain directly to VS if you want, on their email page (link below). I have emailed their marketing department, linking in the petition to my email.

customerservice.victoriassecret.com/app/ask/session/L3RpbWUvMTQxNTEzMTA3NC9zaWQvaWRETk1CNm0%3D

Thanks to all who have participated in this. Its high time women's voices are heard when it comes to this sort of damaging advertising.