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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

999 replies

Scarletohello · 30/10/2014 22:38

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

OP posts:
Spero · 03/11/2014 23:27

For me, the Handmaiden's Tale was always the ultimate feminist novel. I actually had a chill when I realised what the names meant 'Offred' etc.

But as my book group clearly hate me, I shall hold out for the new David Nicholls.

Laters feminazis. Sorry for contributing to the circularity of the debate. You do seem a little kinder and gentler than I remember so maybe I can finally heal these ancient wounds and make peace with this thread.

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 03/11/2014 23:29

I read the Woman's Room at about the same time (or just after) - I thought it was amazing. I read it after I had sneakily watched the film it on tv. My mum's fault - she kept on going on about it.

ArsenicSoup · 03/11/2014 23:29

It's interesting. It's the sexual liberation that strikes you all as pivotal.

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 03/11/2014 23:30

Handmaid's Tale is awesome. The ultimate in women as incubators.

BellaSolanum · 03/11/2014 23:31

I must read the Handmaiden's Tale, it's on my bookcase waiting for me, and what am I reading instead? GoT.

Spero Make sure you come back and talk to us some more ok?

FrauHelga · 03/11/2014 23:32

I fear if I read The Handmaid's Tale I would become rather angry so perhaps it's best I don't Grin

ArsenicSoup · 03/11/2014 23:34

THT is the ultimate feminist cautionary tale.

Are you sure they aren't expecting uplifting/inspirational Spero? Wink

ArsenicSoup · 03/11/2014 23:36

I must admit I was a bit dense and didn't realise the Iranian connection. Not sure I could re-read it ATM.

ZingOfSeven · 03/11/2014 23:38

rosdearg

"cereal is shit in a box" - first time I read this phrase. I don't know what it meansConfused

(btw mine had cereal for dinner. whatever that makes me I don't know.)

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 03/11/2014 23:39

so maybe I can finally heal these ancient wounds and make peace with this thread.

Hope you can, spero. You're obviously a valuable contributor to MN - sorry that this has left such a bad feeling with you.

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 03/11/2014 23:46

It makes you a carer of children, zing - and cereal for dinner suited you and/or them at the time. And there are people on MN and in rl who might guilt you out - you should have had quinoa, raw pepper and olives in the fridge for them or whatever... but meh.

BellaSolanum · 03/11/2014 23:53

I love cereal, happily eat it for dinner. I am disappointed my children do not share my love.

urbandaddy · 04/11/2014 00:30

I completely agree with this PP.
The way some people hold discussions on Mumsnet is awful. I think they actually don't have an idea what discussion is. If I ever see in press any petitions by Mumsnet - I'd be very sceptical of those. To me Mumsnet forum does not represent evenly all social layers of women.

ZingOfSeven · 04/11/2014 00:31

Thanks SanrinnnnnaSmile

interesting thread, but I admit most of it went wooosh over my head.

I think the way I see feminism/feminists or perhaps the way it is/they are portrayed makes me shy away from the entire subject.

And I really hate how some people I know in RL, who call themselves feminist,are just horrible about boys and men in general.
I have a fantastic husband and 6 wonderful sons and I'm not prepared to listen to agression against "them", based on them being males.
I have one wonderful daughter too and I will not listen to anybody saying she isn't as capable as her brothers, because she's a female.
in fact in both cases I challenge people.

again I have no idea what that makes me. but I don't think I'd call myself a feminist. not based on what I know so far - which is admittedly very little.

I think have to learn more.

YonicScrewdriver · 04/11/2014 00:52

Mmm, cereal..,

PetulaGordino · 04/11/2014 03:18

Zing it sounds to me like you definitely have quite strong feminist leanings Grin

UptheChimney · 04/11/2014 08:23

Zing, one of the things I try to do with my students is to get the language right so that when I teach feminism/women's stuidies (which is what I usually do), we're not just "hating on men" as one of them said to me Grin

So we talk about the patriarchy as the social system we live in ("rule of the father"), and I insist that they talk about 'models of masculinity' not just 'men' -- that is, I try to get them to see the bigger structures within which we live, and then analyse those as political or ideological systems, rather than just about the isolated acts of individuals.

I think that helps, because of course we all have men/boys in our lives whom we love (my DS is the best in the world and I'll fight anyone who wants to disagree Grin ) but we also need to be able to be sceptical about a lot of the ideas/politics/ideologies that we're all conditioned into.

So I tend to use the terms 'masculinity' and 'femininity' to refer to the gender roles of people., rather than talk about 'men'. And of course the 'model of masculinuty' is more fluid than simply one thing. But anyway, that's my starting point.

dwarfer · 04/11/2014 08:25

Great thread. Marfisa, Spero, 39steppes please keep posting , the boards need u just as much as seven, Buffy and dervel

rosdearg · 04/11/2014 10:26

Weirdly, from a feminist perspective, I am tempted to recommend a novel by a man - Mating by Norman Rush.

I am getting a lot of sympathy and follow-feeling for not Speaking Up As A Feminist but I was hoping for some understanding of the actual notion that what I did was not a feminist choice. Any takers?

FuckOffGerbil · 04/11/2014 10:43

Feel free to not consider any petition put forward by mumsnet without any thought or critique because it happens to come from a website frequented by millions of different women with different thoughts and opinions urbandaddy. Feel free to also leave MN and not bother posting since we're all doing it wrong.

FuckOffGerbil · 04/11/2014 10:46

Crap was that aggressive? Where's my pinny, come back UrbanDaddy, I'll make you a sandwich.

Hakluyt · 04/11/2014 10:48

"To me Mumsnet forum does not represent evenly all social layers of women"

Which social layers of women do you feel are under represented?

PetulaGordino · 04/11/2014 10:59

rosdearg i agree that it wasn't a feminist choice. i have done similar. but i think what many of us do, given that we have to earn a living and keep a roof over our heads is to do a cost-benefit analysis and sometimes it isn't worth it. i feel mealy-mouthed just writing this tbh, i'm sure you know what i mean. i feel like i'm making excuses for my complicity with misogynist crap, and i am. it's a choice that benefits me in the longrun, but the fact that as a result i might make it further up the ladder, despite being a woman, doesn't make it a feminist choice in itself. margaret thatcher didn't become prime minister because she was a feminist. in that moment, the choice you make is not feminist. there are good reasons for that choice, and your own longterm needs aren't unimportant, but it's not feminist.

PetulaGordino · 04/11/2014 11:00

FOG he has linked on other threads to daily mail articles about MN, stating them as proof of the bad behaviour of MNers. the daily mail doesn't like us Shock? THAT IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION

NotCitrus · 04/11/2014 11:06

Hakluyt (great username!) - by its nature, MN isn't going to represent many women who find writing in fairly formal English impossible or just hard work. So in my local area the only MN users tend to be middle class, often university educated, usually have English as their first language or have lived here for well over 10 years. Given that the mums at ds's school are from a huge variety of backgrounds, under a quarter have English as a first language, probably a third struggle with reading a birthday party invitation, and while all the ones I know support their kids getting a good education, many have little themselves. 67% of kids are entitled to free school meals, as an indicator. Not that many parents have internet access even if they did want to join a group like MN.

The local mums FB group has taken the line that standards of English shouldn't be criticised or mocked, and gets a much more diverse range of input, from discussions that could be on Mumsnet, to ones like the current thread on stupid annoying Facebook sellers. It's become a great local reference resource - shame FB search facilities are so shit.