Can something involving women ever not be a women's issue?

[Hazchem]

This will be a bit disjointed sorry.

So I got involved in an argument on Facebook about a recent protest in Australia by a group called Faceless. They would like to stop women wearing face coverings in public.

part of my argument is that the measures particularly effect women. I've been told it isn't about women it's about equality. Eg men are effected by it too.
I do believe any restriction on women's dress be it enforcing or banning is an issue about women but I've started to doubt myself. I've been called an irrational feminist.

How are men affected? And so what if they are? As you point out it disproportionally affects women (if not wholly). How is it not a women's issue? I'd question their motivation for saying it's not. They aren't wanting to recognise discrimination when it's there. Why would that be?

Personally I think you can look at pretty much anything as a women's issue or feminist issue depending on the angle you critique it from.

I don't understand how men are equally affected by it? Both men and women are affected by the removal of a face to assess in interpersonal situations (so it's like talking to someone on the phone, not the end of the world).

But only women are affected by the fact that it's a face covering worn only by women, thus conferring "difference" and disadvantage based on gender (well, in this case gender + religion).

I don't think everything that involves women is automatically a feminist issue, but given the way society is set up and the many layers of gender-based disadvantage it very often is a feminist issue if a woman is involved.

Saw this on the morning news, and only have this to say... don't engage with idiots. There are some battles you can win, and there are some battles that are a lost cause - this one is definitely the latter.

I also had a quick search for this news story, and I fairly certain one of the 3 guys in the recent news story, was 'featured' in a documentary a few months ago, where he (the racist in the story) had to live for a week with a recent immigrant from Sommalia. The racist was adamant that he was 'not a racist' and keep on banging on about "our Australian way of life" which is pretty much the attitude they have taken on in their current 5 minutes of fame. The documentary did nothing to dissuade the viewer that this man was not a racist. They hide their racism, and in this case misogyny under a very, very thin veil of patriotism, but it is all out there for all of us to see.

They would like you to think its about equality - its not, its about racism and misogyny.

Yes I should have just left it. it don't know why I engaged at all.

Then I got worried I was being irrational and inconsistent (as I'd been accused of being).
Oh and I hate the way of life shit and the Team straya shit.

Yep Haz, look for the battles that you are fairly certain of a positive outcome. It's taken me a long, long, time to learn that little nugget of wisdom . You weren't being irrational and inconsistent, its just that amongst a group of idiots, its easy for them to aim their vitriol at you and claim you are the baddie. Remember, what you know to be right, is right, no matter what a bunch of racist, misogynistic idiots think. Why take their idiotic thoughts on as the gospel and truth? They would like you to think it is, you don't have to accept that it is.

Thanks Zazzles. You are wise :)

The straya way of life shit is bollocks.

I grew up there and

(a) there are lots of sensible, educated, open-minded Australians who are horrified by the narrow minded shite that some Australians come out with (much like most countries), so find like minded souls and don't put up with it, and

(b) they need to be called on it more often - isolation is no excuse for ignorance, and it used to irritate me when I was living there that people acted as if the rest of the world is so far away that we are somehow released from engaging with it properly.

This is such a difficult issue. The pressure to wear a veil is deeply misigynistic. And yet, as Zazzles suggests is the case here, many of the voices raised in opposition to it are actually racist ones.

From the position of a Non-Muslim society, dealing with the veil as an equal situation facing men and women is only valid if one excludes the (female) wearers of the veil to concentrate on those facing those that are hiding their face. I don't think one can exclude the wearers though. They are equal citizens after all.

Surely any issue that disproportionately affects women is a feminist issue? And this question quite clearly falls into that category. It might affect men a bit, but if affects women much more.